F1 Idiots

[truefan72]

i like him and miss him too but it was a 100% his own desicion to leave. If he really wanted to he coulda stay with Mclaren in the first place as he was under contract. Plus he had offers from both Red Bull teams. Even Bernie said in an interview that he thinks JPM will come back (which indicates that he is still welcome in F1 circles) . Simply noone told the guy the leave.

As for the race, you can NOT do that to your team-mate, full stop.

As I mentioned in another thread:
...Also about teammates, in both open wheel, Nascar racing and most North American auto series, The term "teammate" is used in the most liberal of ways and assumed the loosest of all affiliations. In Nascar, the only thing making them a teammate is through ownership of the actual vehicle. These teams have separate sponsors, crews, team bosses, setups, strategies, communication and very individual goals. and are most senses of the word independant. Until I see cohesive strategy and "teamwork" I wouldn't put much stock into this being an incident amongst teamates.

[Osella]

As I mentioned in another thread:
...Also about teammates, in both open wheel, Nascar racing and most North American auto series, The term "teammate" is used in the most liberal of ways...the only thing making them a teammate is through ownership of the actual vehicle... I wouldn't put much stock into this being an incident amongst teamates.

Well, there is a lot of hearsay about NASCAR in this thread!! Actually, in NASCAR the teams are often a lot more cohesive than in most of motorsport, especially single seaters!
In fact, all of the current Toyota teams are working together in testing and practices to get as many Camrys on the grid as possible. Last time out in California Jeff Gordon was all at sea, so the team took Jimmie Johnson's setup and stuck it on his car on race morning. For the record, Gordon finished 2nd.

Also, at races with a strong draft (especially plate races), teammates will often work together to pull themselves to the front, how often do we see that voluntarily in F1?!?

I watched the whole BGN race from Mexico, and the incident was certainly a shame as it ruined a great race!
Also, to state that Montoya was the class of the field is not quite correct either, both Ganassi cars were right at the sharp end all weekend (working together perhaps?..) so clearly they had a good handle on setup. Also, immediately up to the point when Montoya made his unscheduled stop, Pruett was the quickest car on the track, by over a second a lap from Montoya!

Also, bear in mind that the aero downforce on a NASCAR is very, very different to the way an F1 car works. The wing angles are far shallower and less efficient, and they also change under pitch far more due to softer springing of the cars. At the point of impact between Montoya and Pruett, both cars would have had zero downforce, and just relying on the tyres.

Anyone who has watched NASCAR regularly could see that as soon as Montoya pulled out, they were going to hit! Pruett took the normal line for the corner, Juan took a tight line, but I think he basically forgot how long it takes to slow a Busch car from 175 MPH, and how ponderous they are on turn-in. Pruett had no choice but to turn exactly when and where he did, he was trying to make the corner! Juan on fresher tyres obviously had better grip, but probably didn't appreciate that Pruett had no choice but to take the line and timing he did (because he's not the world's most thinkingest-to borrow a Simpsons quote-driver!)

As to those who say Pruett should have 'moved the F--- outa the way!', what is this? A Race? Or is it only okay for Montoya to try and win, and not anyone else!?

Also, in the past few seasons, road races (Cup and Busch), have been won by Stewart, Robby Gordon, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett, Denny Hamlin, Kurt Busch, and Scott Pruett, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head!) Throw in Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Marc Goossens and a few other road course 'ringers' and I don't think anyone will be giving Montoya the 185 points from The Glen or Sears Point just yet!!
And don't forget that Boris Said and Marcos Ambrose are also undergoing a very similar learning curve, so sing some praises that way too!

Anyway, rant over And good luck to the guy ('cos he's gonna need it! )
From a long-time F1 fan, and NASCAR follower of over 10 years.

[Easy Drifter]

To me it appears very few posters have watched many NAPCAR races, especially road courses or short tracks like Bristol or Martinsville. Bamming and Framing or trading paint is normal.
Just about every Nextel cup or Busch race on a road course has several accidental on purpose spin outs. Many a race on the bigger ovals has also been won by a little shove in the right place at the right time. It is a standard part of the game. Most of these guys learned it on the way up through the Sat. night bullrings.
How many of the posters on this thread have ever been to a race at a bullring (short track)? I have many times and I have even driven a stocker on a dirt oval many moons ago.
On short tracks a few years ago most late models had no brakes for the first few laps until they warmed up. Then they had brakes for several laps until they faded and back to very little. A friend developed a brake that worked right away and kept working. He gave a set to a driver that had never won a feature race. He won 3 in a row and then everyone used him as a brake. The system was then banned by the "powers that be' at that track.
What Juan did was a little more blatant than normal but it was standard stock car practice.

[Osella]

Just about every Nextel cup or Busch race on a road course has several accidental on purpose spin outs.

Yeah, but there are some races Kurt Busch isn't in!

[rlenis]

Last time out in California Jeff Gordon was all at sea, so the team took Jimmie Johnson's setup and stuck it on his car on race morning. For the record, Gordon finished 2nd.

If I am not mistaken Jeff Gordon owns Jimmy Johnson's car.

Also, to state that Montoya was the class of the field is not quite correct either, both Ganassi cars were right at the sharp end all weekend (working together perhaps?..) so clearly they had a good handle on setup. Also, immediately up to the point when Montoya made his unscheduled stop, Pruett was the quickest car on the track, by over a second a lap from Montoya!

Is that why Montoya put a comfortable 8-10 seconds gap between himself and Pruett after the first two pit stops?

Also, in the past few seasons, road races (Cup and Busch), have been won by Stewart, Robby Gordon, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett, Denny Hamlin, Kurt Busch, and Scott Pruett,

Pruett has never won a NASCAR race. He was going for his maiden win in Mexico same as Montoya.

[Osella]

If I am not mistaken Jeff Gordon owns Jimmy Johnson's car.

Is that why Montoya put a comfortable 8-10 seconds gap between himself and Pruett after the first two pit stops?

Jeff is indeed the 'owner' of Johnson's car (as NASCAR has rules governing the ownership of cars, intruduced a few years ago to prevent 3/4 car teams, but Jimmie has been supported by Jeff (as his protege) for several seasons. SO yes, it's not a surprise, but it's not as though Jimmie was forced into it! In fact it was Jeff's crew chief who suggested the move, and they then refined the setup through the race. At Daytona this year, Jimmie (again) was concerned he had a slow puncture, so got (teammate) Casey Mears to check his tyres under caution.
If you see much NASCAR you will see teammates working together a lot, and more to the point, treating each other with respect when racing one another.

Yes Montoya pulled out a gap of about 10 seconds on Pruett between stops, but after the unscheduled stop, Pruett was by far the fastest car on track.

And why I said Pruett had won I don't know! I was thinking of Ron Fellows!!

[VresiBerba]

Im sure Dennis was angry at JPM, people often have that after having been around him for a while. Give ganassi a few years and you will see the same.

You DO know that Montoya already raced for Ganassi 'a few years' (1999-2000)

Added to that, he was "lucky" enough to get taken out by JPM once.

Oh really, when was that?

[ioan]

Nah. Sofia Vergara.

One of the rare times I agree with Wilderness on a topic.

[Garry Walker]

You DO know that Montoya already raced for Ganassi 'a few years' (1999-2000)

Oh really, when was that?

yes i know that.

Nürburgring 2004 where montoya rammed out Ralf at the start. They also had other collisions, typically of Montoya to try to push his way through cars.

[555-04Q2]

but I would challenge you to tell me who currently in F1 apart from kimi and Alonso is better than him.

If that is your feeling then F1 is full of useless prats then. Monty was overrated