Poll on who was at fault

[i_max2k2]

All the last photo shows is the result of the tire to tire contact pulling the front of vettel's car towards webber, as vettel's car begins to spin out of control.

if you look carefully in photo 4, you will see vettel has already turned his front wheels away from webber's path to correct the slide
(probably instinctive response to the slide)

at best misleading, and at worst, dishonest.

the only thing silly is how some people view this string of photos as showing the accident is vettel's fault

Yes to correct the slide after his rear tire had made contact, that is what every driver in the world will do to correct his car, heck even I would have done the same , but anyway the video doesn't get better, I don't understand how anyone can not see seb coming into webber, if you have been given limited room to play with you do that, you don't start turning in so aggressively, my understanding is Vettel's intimidating move on webber went wrong here, he just cound'nt get his car turn the other way on the dirty side, he should have know that could happen. But anyway its 90% vettel and 10% a racing incident, but none whatsoever webber. I was a fan of Vettel until this race, and now I'm not going to be supporting the sissy golden boy. He's way too arrogant and immatured to be counted anywhere near the greats.

[penagate]

Failing to avoid an avoidable accident is not the same as causing one.
Both drivers could have avoided making contact but in the end it was Vettel who actually initiated the collision.

There is little point in analysing something that happened in a matter of seconds as though both drivers had all the time in the world to consider their next move. This crash was more about the predetermined psychological mindset of the drivers than anything else. Vettel played the aggressor while Webber held his line and refused to be intimidated. Ultimately their egos collided well before their cars did.

The move itself will be debated for years (read the comments on Youtube videos of Senna and Prost's collisions — one driver has passed on and the other retired and yet people still argue over who was in the right). Vettel has done himself no favours and will now be on the back foot. Webber has an outright championship lead but may be doubting his position within the team. In the end we are the winners — it was a great race to watch and sets us up for some fireworks throughout the rest of the season.

[markabilly]

I've watched that video... you're on drugs.

Webber DID move toward Vettel early then moved back and gave him racing room.

Webber then travelled absolutely straight and held his line. Vettel got nervous and started to push Webber out.

Webber didn't budge.

Vettel pushed Webber further right as his wheels collided with Webber. You can clearly see Webber steer away from Vettel just as it's about to happen but it was too late.

.

Better watch all three videos, even do a little stop action.

webber did move towards him as they were going up the hill, and vettell puts his wheels on the white line to avoid the contact and then webber starts to move away as though conceding the pass and the ground, then vettle moves towards him, but then Webber holds steady until right before the contact.

webber holds steady even as the wheels become interlocked and it is clear that Vettel is moving faster than webber.

Right before the two tires touch, Webber then turns his steering into Vettel with a quick move or flick of the wrists, so quick you almost need to slow mo it to see it, so as to jink the car over and then he straightens the wheel as contact is made

Webber saw this accident beginning to happen right in front of him, and did not flick his wrists to move the wheel to the opposite side, but instead moved further in to Vettel.

CHEATER CHOPPER WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO ADMIT THE TRUTH

Only a blind man can not see this, and once it is called to your attention, any honest man would admit it; Webber chopped into vettel rather than move away from the accident he clearly saw was going to happen if he did not.

If it were my team, i might want to fire somebody for this damage.....the gutless cheater chopper....

So no matter how bad it hurts the Aussies and fellow brits and brit lovers everywhere, and no matter how much I dislike red bull, for what they did to my man, Vettel has no fault and 100% fault on Wbber, even reckless disregard and intentional conduct, no different than what cost MS a second place in the WDC

[Valve Bounce]

All the last photo shows is the result of the tire to tire contact pulling the front of vettel's car towards webber, as vettel's car begins to spin out of control.

if you look carefully in photo 4, you will see vettel has already turned his front wheels away from webber's path to correct the slide
(probably instinctive response to the slide)

at best misleading, and at worst, dishonest.

the only thing silly is how some people view this string of photos as showing the accident is vettel's fault

I disagree. The first and second photos clearly show that Vettel had enough room to pass. The third photo shows the distance indicated in red greatly increased as Vettel turns in front of Webber before he is clear.

However, it is your prerogative to view the photos and videos and interpret them any way you wish. So how this can be construed as misleading or dishonest is in itself an incorrect premise.

Who you wish to identify is at blame is entirely your decision, same as anyone who now thinks both are to blame or that Vettel is to blame.

[Valve Bounce]

THANKS

I Looked again and WHAT DOES IT SHOW??

WEBBER TURNING HIS WHEEL TOWARD VETTEL and then the contact. It also shows that unlike Vettel, Webber had full view of the placement of his car and Vettel, as once he is in front, he can not readily see to the side, not nearly as good as Webber.

This vid shows where vettel turns his wheel slightly towards Webber, then continues straight without contact or even having webber in the view of the camera, then turning his steering away from webber as the contact is made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpTV...eature=related

it also shows that webber forced vettel unto the white line and then moved away as though conceding the pass........

the next video at the 8 second mark as Vettel passes, webber moves his steering wheel away from vettel as though moving over, but then stops it, holds it straight as the wheels are becoming interlocked, and then turns the steering into Vettel and then the contact occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygMWc...eature=related

And at the 8 second mark, webber can clearly see, unlike Vettel, that the two wheels are becoming interlocked, and then right at the 9-10 second mark, he turns his steering wheel wheel into Seb, and at ten second mark to 11 second mark, the game is over, with tire smoke and all......


I take it all back when I gave ole chopper the benefit of the doubt and said racing incident.

The chopper chopped into the side of Vettel, by actually moving his steering wheel towards Vettel to ensure the contact, contact that Webber knew was likely to happen without any attempt at an evasive manuever......

So I take back my doubts and say:

Face guys, once again,
WEBBER IS A CHEATER CHOPPER , ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE

and no amount of sales revenue for Red Cow, will ever change that

Here's to you, Mr. Henners, a toast of the good stuff....but not no red bull....

I have watched both videos several times, including Webbers steering wheel, at the times that you allege he turned towards Vettel.

I see no such thing.

You can view things anyway you wish, but I can't say that I support your view.

[Valve Bounce]

Better watch all three videos, even do a little stop action.

webber did move towards him as they were going up the hill, and vettell puts his wheels on the white line to avoid the contact and then webber starts to move away as though conceding the pass and the ground, then vettle moves towards him, but then Webber holds steady until right before the contact.

webber holds steady even as the wheels become interlocked and it is clear that Vettel is moving faster than webber.

Right before the two tires touch, Webber then turns his steering into Vettel with a quick move or flick of the wrists, so quick you almost need to slow mo it to see it, so as to jink the car over and then he straightens the wheel as contact is made

Webber saw this accident beginning to happen right in front of him, and did not flick his wrists to move the wheel to the opposite side, but instead moved further in to Vettel.

CHEATER CHOPPER WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO ADMIT THE TRUTH

Only a blind man can not see this, and once it is called to your attention, any honest man would admit it; Webber chopped into vettel rather than move away from the accident he clearly saw was going to happen if he did not.

If it were my team, i might want to fire somebody for this damage.....the gutless cheater chopper....

So no matter how bad it hurts the Aussies and fellow brits and brit lovers everywhere, and no matter how much I dislike red bull, for what they did to my man, Vettel has no fault and 100% fault on Wbber, even reckless disregard and intentional conduct, no different than what cost MS a second place in the WDC

I honestly cannot admit your viewpoint. But good luck to you - I think at least 5 guys here agree with you and are right. Unfortunately, 66 of them (so far) are wrong .

[truefan72]

damn, hit the wrong button, meant to say Vettel, so that 7th vote is an out-lier

[i_max2k2]

Only a blind man can not see this, and once it is called to your attention, any honest man would admit it; Webber chopped into vettel rather than move away from the accident he clearly saw was going to happen if he did not.

Couldn't have said it better than you, seriously, with so many drivers people, even Lewis Hamilton, whom I will give my vote of confidence, who also probably had the best view, said it was Vettel's fault, so 95% of the people are blind and dishonest, seriously just go through all the video's again, and look at them from a neutral perspective, and then try to form your opinion.

[markabilly]

I disagree. The first and second photos clearly show that Vettel had enough room to pass. The third photo shows the distance indicated in red greatly increased as Vettel turns in front of Webber before he is clear.

However, it is your prerogative to view the photos and videos and interpret them any way you wish. So how this can be construed as misleading or dishonest is in itself an incorrect premise.

Who you wish to identify is at blame is entirely your decision, same as anyone who now thinks both are to blame or that Vettel is to blame.

The in-car videos show it very clearly, with no room for doubt, that as the front wheel is becoming interlocked and is almost touching Vettels tire, --something which Webber has the clear view of, unlike Vettel, that Webber flicks the steering to the left, which ensures the tire to tire contact will occur.

A flick in the opposite direction, and there is no contact or the contact is reduced.

What is also clear is that Webber squeezes Vettel to the white line, and as they top the hill as Vettel now has his front wheel past Webber's is that Webber moves over away from Vettel as to concede position and ground.

But then Webber straightens and never moves further to the right, lets his front wheel become interlocked and gives the wheel a flick to the left, ensuring contact

So clear, even a blind man can see, except those so blinded by their idolarity or their ego. This is not a popuralrity contest determined by votes, but the objective evidence in living color

Yep on Monday I was clearly in the racing incident camp, but on Tuesday evening, I saw the light so now, I am in the camp of 100% webber at fault,
the ole cheater chopper done it again, without penalty and without the guts to admit it..

[markabilly]

Another way you could view the situatiom Markabilly, would be to imagine Vettel in this situation was Lewis Hamilton. I can just imagine what your stance would be if that was the case. The beauty of this whole incident for me is the fact that I am a fan of neither driver and can view it with impartiality, and can see it for what it is.

And neither am I. Indeed, I have not been a fan, but something of an anti-fan of Red Bull, Seb and Webber. But when given the choice, I would pick Webber over the other two. All you need do is look at the caption thread.

I would defend Hamilton, just as I defended Hamilton when at Spa, Hamilton was robbed of a victory due to the idiots not knowing the difference of being on a wet track with dry tires, and a dry track......

No, unlike many whiners, I am not into having a popularity contest control my opinions, so am I happy to stand by myself, and say, cheater chopper webber, you chop so well and so deceitful, everybody loves you

But thanks again, Mr. Henners, without your posting, I would not have looked again and noticed that quick flick of the wrists as ole chopper chopped again...

and it explains webbers worried look at the post race interview