Put An End To Foot To The Floor Racing

[ICWS]

Or allowing a NASCAR race at Road America?

Road America has actually had a variety of racing series come to race there (SCCA, NASCAR Cup Series, CanAm, Trans-Am, IMSA, AMA, Formula 5000, Grand-Am and ALMS) so IndyCar wasn't the only series to race there, even though it was regarded as the main event. Darlington, however, has pretty much had only NASCAR races through its entire history (although USAC raced there in 1956 and the Silver Crown series has been racing there for the past 3 years).

[ICWS]

When a concrete track is green the bottom line is always fastest. Once the bottom line starts to accumulate rubber it becomes very rough (unlike asphalt, rubber just builds up ontop of concrete) and drivers start moving up the track to find grip.

The only oval where the cars aren't so nimble that they must wash out to the wall is Indy. That's the first issue to adress before you have multiple grooves in the turns.

Nashville, like Dover, would be good tracks for IndyCar to race for the purpose of having diverse ovals, but I hope IndyCar's new car can overcome 100% throttle racing and Firestone could work on their tires to prevent single-groove racing. These two things should happen before they consider going back to those tracks. Dover is interesting because while NASCAR is the only series there, Delaware isn't considered to be a NASCAR state so an improved IndyCar series could bring fans there and the track is independently owned instead of being owned by ISC or SMI (although SMI has been rumored to be purchasing it).

[ICWS]

"Yes, being in NASCAR territory is why no one showed up at Barber." - call_me_andrew


What I meant was Darlington Raceway is a track that dedicates itself to running NASCAR races similar to how Long Beach dedicates itself to the IndyCar race. My post had nothing to do with demographics and fan base. Barber on the other hand is a track that doesn't dedicate itself to one series and will support whatever series chooses to go there (IndyCar, Grand-Am, AMA Superbike, etc.). If IndyCar can convince the owners of Darlington Raceway that their cars are suitable for a race, then that's a plus for IndyCar. But IndyCar would have an easier time lining up oval races that are not established as NASCAR territory, such as New Hampshire, Las Vegas, Fontana, Michigan, Phoenix, etc. I don't think IndyCar can get to tracks like Darlington, Bristol, Martinsville, Daytona, Talladega, etc. since those tracks seem 100% committed to NASCAR races (Daytona could be a possibility if IndyCar ran the road course, but an oval race there would be pushing it).

[Mark in Oshawa]

And now the IRL is continuing to be bush league, with spec crate engines, one chassis that is almost 10 years old with drivers nobody gives a flying youknowwhat about with costs that are asinine.

Ummm Tony George brought us to this point. You pointed to him a few months back as being right with the formation of the IRL....

Back in those years that were so "terrible", more people were watching on TV, more teams were competing at Indy, more American drivers were competing, all the races were on ABC/ESPN and costs were more in line with the level of popularity. And the racing action was IONS better then the crap we see today.

No...it was less than the series CART put on TV every year with GROWING ratings right up until 1995..mmmmmm what happened THEN???

And Penske's 2 cars couldn't beat Panther Racing's one car when they first came over to the IRL. Today, you could put a monkey in a Penske car and finish in the top 5 in points. And Penske isn't even sponsored anymore.

Penske has owned the series with Ganassi pretty much since they showed up. Nice try Scott...Penske on occasion has an off year historically...but how many Indy 500 championship's does Penske have? How many for Ganassi? Then...how many did Panther have once the top guys started coming back to the Speedway from CART?

[px400r]

Road America has actually had a variety of racing series come to race there (SCCA, NASCAR Cup Series, CanAm, Trans-Am, IMSA, AMA, Formula 5000, Grand-Am and ALMS) so IndyCar wasn't the only series to race there, even though it was regarded as the main event.

NASCAR ran one race, way back in 1956. All the others you named are road racing series, so it's not unusual to find them at RA.

[V12]

When you have standardised circuits, standardised cars, engines, tyres, you get standardised racing, and the only way around it is with stupid add-ons like push-to-pass, mandatory use of different compound tyres, reverse grids, success ballast, all that BS.

It's all very nice to have the cars very close in speed in a spec-formula, but generally speaking, for a pass to be performed, the car behind has to be going fast enough to go around the car in front of it. Yes you can mandate a brick of a car that punches enough of a hole in the air to allow slipstreaming to have a significant effect, but to me constant passing and repassing at will is just as predictable as a follow-the-leader parade, because the bulk of the race is totally insignificant as it's all about placing your car and being in the right place at the right time on the last lap. And I'm not saying that doesn't take skill because it does, but it's a different skill to what it should be about, driving your car quicker than everyone else.

People talk about a "level playing field" but to me a level playing field should simply mean the same rules for everyone, rather than everyone being completely equalised because then there is less competition. And it's not like a spec car has stopped Penske & Ganassi from dominating anyway.

To be fair though it's hardly an IndyCar-specific problem, I could quite easily cross-post this in the F1 forum and swap "spec car" for "equalized engines and control tyres" and Penske and Ganassi for Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull.

[Mark in Oshawa]

When you have standardised circuits, standardised cars, engines, tyres, you get standardised racing, and the only way around it is with stupid add-ons like push-to-pass, mandatory use of different compound tyres, reverse grids, success ballast, all that BS.

It's all very nice to have the cars very close in speed in a spec-formula, but generally speaking, for a pass to be performed, the car behind has to be going fast enough to go around the car in front of it. Yes you can mandate a brick of a car that punches enough of a hole in the air to allow slipstreaming to have a significant effect, but to me constant passing and repassing at will is just as predictable as a follow-the-leader parade, because the bulk of the race is totally insignificant as it's all about placing your car and being in the right place at the right time on the last lap. And I'm not saying that doesn't take skill because it does, but it's a different skill to what it should be about, driving your car quicker than everyone else.

People talk about a "level playing field" but to me a level playing field should simply mean the same rules for everyone, rather than everyone being completely equalised because then there is less competition. And it's not like a spec car has stopped Penske & Ganassi from dominating anyway.

To be fair though it's hardly an IndyCar-specific problem, I could quite easily cross-post this in the F1 forum and swap "spec car" for "equalized engines and control tyres" and Penske and Ganassi for Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull.

Quit making sense!!!! WE cant have that!

[ICWS]

NASCAR ran one race, way back in 1956. All the others you named are road racing series, so it's not unusual to find them at RA.

My point was Road America isn't as established as IndyCar's property while Darlington is 99.9% NASCAR's property. Road America, like I pointed out, has had a variety of racing series come there so it doesn't dedicate itself full-time to American open-wheel racing. Even if the track had just one Cup race at Road America, that's still more flexible than having zero non-NASCAR/USAC Silver Crown races at Darlington.

NASCAR wouldn't be having Busch/Truck races at Road America this year if The Milwaukee Mile didn't have the problems they had. I wish IndyCar was smart enough to have done that, but hopefully they could add both Milwaukee and Elkhart Lake to a future schedule.