Is Jo Ramirez also bitter?

[Bagwan]

so we have a double standard villeneuve is bitter but ramirez is honest while they are stating the same in their opinions.

Here's the point of the thread for those who seem to have lost it .

Brutal honesty taken sometimes as bitter , and other times as just brutal .

[ratonmacias]

man i feel bad for the halfie fans another 4 to 5 years of following a mediocre driver.

back to topic ecclestone also said the same is he bitter?

[raphael123]

In the last 5 races, Ralf outqualified JPM 3:2, so your claim that JPM was totally beating Ralf is absolutely wrong.
He did have poor reliability indeed, but Ralf was overall easily the better driver. JPM would have won 2 races, not 3 - At Brazil he wouldnt have had the pace in the rain to compete against DC or even MS.

Ralf beat Montoya in ualifying 3:2? But what about the race?! Montoya won in Monza while Ralf came home 3rd. In Indy while JPM had hydraulics failure while heading for a podium, Ralf spun off, and in Japan JPM finished 2nd, and quite easily, while Ralf limped home in 5th. So even though Montoya had 1 mechanical in those last 3 races compared to Ralf’s 0, he managed a 1st and a 2nd, while Ralf managed a 3rd and a 6th, and a spin. How you can say Ralf was equal to Montoya at the end of the season is baffling. And why not go a further race back – Belgium? Montoya looking strong for a potential win from his form in practice and in qualifying (pole), unfortunately his engine let him down before we got to find out. But a podium at the minimum was on the cards! Hungary in fairness JPM was nowhere, and Ralf was very good. The race before that JPM was heading for a maiden GP win, but his engine let go, allowing Ralf to win. So there you go, that’s a rough account of the last 6 GP’s of the season, which I would say constitute for a ‘end of season’ showing. Apart from Hungary, JPM had the upperhand on Ralf the other 5 times. To state otherwise is ridiculous.

BS. Both Ralf and JPM had 3 car related failures in 2002, and Ralf was also once taken out by Rubens in a really dumb move (australia)
In qualifying JPM and Ralf were around equal that year, and the same is true for races - Ralf would have actually beaten him on points had he not had an engine failure in the last few laps at suzuka.

Montoya headed into Japan with a 5pt lead or something isn’t it?. Was Ralf heading for 2nd place when he retired with engine failure? If not it wouldn’t have made any difference.

They may both have had 3 mechanical failures, but it’s what they lose from those mechanical failures which I was referring to. It’s fair to say Montoya lost the chance to win Malaysia when he tangled with Michael and was unfairly penalised too on top of everything. Surprisingly even Michael Schumacher had admitted that he stewards made the wrong decision (which I noticed you admit to that in one of your other posts) The general consensus in the paddock at the time was that MS was the one who should have been penalised if anyone (in reality it was a racing accident, there was no need for any penalty), definitely not JPM. The same happened in Brazil, where JPM was the fastest car out there, but due to an incident on lap one, where someone turned in front of him, he would have been fighting at the top end of the grid. In Monaco and Canada Montoya had reliability issue costing him some big points. It was again the 2nd half of the season where Montoya started to dominate Ralf, while in the first half they were pretty evenly matched, but Montoya’s inconsistent or bad luck, getting involed with other drivers cost him a lot of points, while Ralf maximised the situation. In the 2nd half Ralf faded, just like he did the previous year, and the year before that against Button.

Generally though, I would agree with you that Ralf and JPM were quite evenly match, giving the slight edge to Montoya as he scored more points, and while he didn’t score the points Ralf did in the first half of the season, he had the speed as watching the races will show you. While in the 2nd half of the season, though JPM scored more points than Ralf, Ralf didn’t show he was as quick as Montoya, in a way JPM did in the first half.

LOL. Ralf was a title contender for sure, After Silverstone (where Ralf lost points due to bad luck) they were on equal points, then came Hockhenheim and Rubens once again took Ralf out. Before that many thought Ralf was actually the main rival for MS, not jpm.
At hungary Ralf had an amazing drive, and due to team-orders didnt overtake JPM when JPM spun. Then he suffered an accident in testing and couldnt compete at Monza. Thats where Ralfs championship battle ended. But insiders at Williams claimed that they beleived Ralf would have won the Monza GP, whereas JPM couldnt. Ralf also easily owned JPM in qualifying.

Ralf was still considered a title contender till Silverstone, but that was at the halfway stage Garry. And wasn’t he behind JPM on points at that point of the season? At that stage both were seen as potential title contenders, but in the end, as the previous 2 seasons, Ralf faded, while Montoya got stronger in the 2nd half of the season. If you look at the races which they both competed in Montoya did the better job. And Montoya too suffered from bad luck that year, running away with victory in Japan till his car let go.

Ralf missed 6 races because of a back injury!!! But thats irrelevant when one wants to hype jpm huh? oh and Ralf had 3 car-related DSQ, whereas JPM only had 2. JPM took part in all 18 races, whereas Ralf only took part in 12. Ralf was also taken out by JPM at germany and lost a podium at canada due to illegal brakes (jpm lost his 4th place)

I must apologise, that did slip my mind. That doesn’t mean we can’t compare their seasons. In the races they both competed in together JPM got a 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th, 5th, 7th, 1st, while Ralf got a 4th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 2nd, 5th. These were the point finishes, but you can clearly see that when either of them finish a race, JPM is the one who finishes near the top end of the point scoring positions, while Ralf, bar a 4th and a 2nd is down the low end of the point scoring positions. So even then, Ralf only just about managed to score more than half the points JPM did, on 3 times the wages JPM was on!!

JPM and Ralf were equal throughout their 4 seasons, no matter what JPM hypers say.

If only you could back that up though!! The stats prove otherwise. And as I’ve said, the stats only give you half of a story. You need to watch the races too. And once you’ve done that, it’s clear to all JPM had the upperhand for 75% of their time together. Saying that, I’m not surprised you can’t see that after reading a comment of yours, which you stated you don’t think Schumacher did anything wrong in Monaco 06!!

[ioan]

Why isn't this thread moved to the History and Nostalgia?

[raphael123]

Why isn't this thread moved to the History and Nostalgia?

Maybe it's my fault for bringing it back up. Sorry - I haven't been on here for a couple of weeks, and only just read Garry's reply - and had to reply to what he said!

Ioan, it reminds me, you never did back up for opinion like you said you always try and do. I'm still interested in hearing how you can say that stats give you the full picture, and yet state Ralf was better than Montoya, when the stats show Montoya did a much better job than Ralf. Be interesting to see you explain that to people...if you can..and got the time of course