Is Jo Ramirez also bitter?

[Bagwan]

Bagwan you're his fan, you want to protect your idol, why don't you search for those comments and provide a link for us non-believers?!

I stated that teams did go his way and their technical divergences weren't the ones that lead to JV being ousted from F1.

That's what you stated , and that's what I refuted .

Patrick Head fought tooth and nail with JV over set-up . That's well known .

Reynard fought tooth and nail with JV over the design of the car being too flexy , and eventually was allowed to , with help and direction from his engineer , Jock Clear , fasten CF boards to the sides of the tub to stiffen it . That's well known as well .

Then Willis came on board and agreed with JV and JC , saying the car was a dinosaur .

At that point , he had gotten his way once , and won .
Then , he had not gotten his way (in a car said to be designed for him) , and a respected designer said he should have , and he lost out .

Then came Richards with his lies .

He left , and soldiered in a car designed for Alonso's radical style for 3 races , and then went to Sauber .

At Sauber he again battled the engineers with traction control that was uncontrollable . This time , the engineers were at the supplier end , so the struggle was even more frustrating .
This is also well known .


You know these things .

You don't need links .

[ioan]

That's what you stated , and that's what I refuted .

Patrick Head fought tooth and nail with JV over set-up . That's well known .

Reynard fought tooth and nail with JV over the design of the car being too flexy , and eventually was allowed to , with help and direction from his engineer , Jock Clear , fasten CF boards to the sides of the tub to stiffen it . That's well known as well .

Then Willis came on board and agreed with JV and JC , saying the car was a dinosaur .

At that point , he had gotten his way once , and won .
Then , he had not gotten his way (in a car said to be designed for him) , and a respected designer said he should have , and he lost out .

Then came Richards with his lies .

He left , and soldiered in a car designed for Alonso's radical style for 3 races , and then went to Sauber .

At Sauber he again battled the engineers with traction control that was uncontrollable . This time , the engineers were at the supplier end , so the struggle was even more frustrating .
This is also well known .


You know these things .

You don't need links .

I stated that he never left a team because fights over the setup of the car. And if you check out you will see that he stayed some time at every team (not Renault, but he didn't have a long term contract with them) in spite of this setup related conflicts and he left because of personality related conflicts (he didn't stand to be replaced by Sato or Kubica so he left the teams before his contract ran out).
So I still don't see when did I state something that wasn't right.

[raphael123]

hi ioan, did you ever check up your f1 racing magazines about comments made by ron dennis and frank williams regarding montoya?

and garry walker, montoya quite comfortably beat ralf

[ArrowsFA1]

In answer to the original question, of course he's not bitter. He's been asked his opinion and given it, as has Damon Hill and others in the lead up to the new season.

[Garry Walker]

Whatever you say. Felipe was clean outscored by Fisichella in 2004, does that mean Felipe is also extremely overrated? Because it sure doesn't mean he's going to crush Raikkonen like you say he will.

The Felipe that the mentally weak Fisi beat was a different driver compared to the one we have now. Even Peter Sauber thinks Massa was/is faster than Kimi.

Massa will dominate Kimi and crush him.

[Osella]

and garry walker, montoya quite comfortably beat ralf

On what, exactly are you basing that!?
The whole reason he left Williams was because Ralf rattled him and the argument he had with the team at the French GP (when Ralf was on a roll) was what lead to him leaving them.

He also finished behind Ralf on points at the end of the season more than once (the same number of times he finished ahead!)

In 2001 he won just once (but was a rookie admittedly) when Ralf won three races, in 2002 didn't win at all (Ralf did), in 2003 both won twice, and in 2004 Juan was better over the course of the season, but that was one season in four!!

I really, really don't mind people having favourite drivers, but to make thoughtless comments like this really bugs me!!

P.S. Ralf Schumacher is a distinctly average F1 driver, not rubbish, but not championship material in all probability. And Montoya really did diddly-squat against him or Raikkonen, except in the occasional race.. He has never comfortably beaten his team-mate in F1!

As for the point of this thread, I don't think Ramirez is bitter, he has seen a lot in F1, but he has also got things wrong about drivers. I find it interesting that people are so ready to accept that 'he must be right about Hamilton because he's closely involved with McLaren', yet dismiss another driver he comments about, but has never had any contact with, and has been contracted to McLaren's biggest rivals for the last 4 years!...

Yes, he is no longer involved with McLaren in the same way he was, but I still think his comments are misguided regarding Massa..

[raphael123]

On what, exactly are you basing that!?
The whole reason he left Williams was because Ralf rattled him and the argument he had with the team at the French GP (when Ralf was on a roll) was what lead to him leaving them.

He also finished behind Ralf on points at the end of the season more than once (the same number of times he finished ahead!)

In 2001 he won just once (but was a rookie admittedly) when Ralf won three races, in 2002 didn't win at all (Ralf did), in 2003 both won twice, and in 2004 Juan was better over the course of the season, but that was one season in four!!

I really, really don't mind people having favourite drivers, but to make thoughtless comments like this really bugs me!!

P.S. Ralf Schumacher is a distinctly average F1 driver, not rubbish, but not championship material in all probability. And Montoya really did diddly-squat against him or Raikkonen, except in the occasional race.. He has never comfortably beaten his team-mate in F1!

Oh please, I really, really don't mind people disliking certain drivers, but to make thoughtless comments like this really bugs me!.

Don't you watch the races? Or do you just look at the statistics? Statistics only give you half a picture. In 2001, his rookie season, after a pretty average start - by the end of the season he completely had the upperhand on Ralf. In qualifying and in races. He suffered very poor reliability, and would have won at least 3 races in his rookie season bar mechanical failures. Unless your one of these people who blame drivers for mechanical failures, if so, there's not much point discussing these things with you .

In 2002 JPM beat Ralf, statistically too, as reliability improved. It's also important to notice JPM lost many more points than Ralf on reliability issue (when you look at how many points were lost when they suffered mechanical failures!)

And then come 2003, again JPM beat Ralf, but this time by an even bigger margin! While JPM was a title contender till near the end of the season (and lets not forget he was in a world of his own in Japan until reliability failure), Ralf was not at any time a title contender, in what was the best car from for the 2nd half of the season.

And then 2004, JPM scored MORE than twice as many points as Ralf! His performances were better, and reliabilty was even between both drivers.

So what you said was completely INCORRECT. Ralf beat Montoya on points ONCE! In JPM's rookie season! And even then it was down to his better reliability. So Ralf only beat JPM one in 4 seasons, not the other way round as you claimed.

Then as for the reasons of JPM's departure, the French GP was catalyst for leaving. But there was more to it than that, one major reason being Sam Michael's promotion, the guy who had been working closely with Ralf since 97 at the time, and were good friends. JPM saw an opportunity to move to a better team, and did so...not much wrong in that.

Anyway, I hope you are big enough to admit the errors in your previous post, and admit you were wrong about Ralf having the better of JPM, as that was clearly not the case. Over the 4 seasons JPM had much worse reliability (mainly in Season 1 & 2) yet still outshined him 3.5/4yrs.

I look forward to your reply to this post

[ArrowsFA1]

This has moved into History and Nostalgia territory which, I believe, relates to the point that pino was making in his Goodbye... thread

[ioan]

Don't you watch the races? Or do you just look at the statistics? Statistics only give you half a picture.

And "very subjective" feeling don't even give you the other half of the picture, just some kind of self inducted reality.
I'll take statistics over your feeling any day.

[raphael123]

And "very subjective" feeling don't even give you the other half of the picture, just some kind of self inducted reality.
I'll take statistics over your feeling any day.

Well then your missing out. As I said, stats give you half a picture only.
For example, we were discussing Montoya's 1 victory in his debut season, compared to Ralf's 3 in that season. That would definately suggest Montoya had a good first season, but he wasn't a patch on Ralf. But if you actually look at what happened in the races, Montoya was heading for a win in Brazil and in Hockenheim quite comfortably but for incidents/car failure completely outside his control. But if you just look at the stats for the race all it says is he got pole and had fastest lap, but failed to convert it into victory. But he didn't fail due to driver error. I don't think many people would argue Montoya was heading for victory in those races, therefore in this instant it isn't exactly 'subjective', or if it is it's the common subjective view with 99.9% of the viewers.

The same can apply for Schumacher in 95, where he would have beaten Mansell's then record of 9 victories but for rookie mistakes by Hill cost him that chance. In the end he beat that record anyway 10yrs later, but the people who watched those races know very well that he was more than good enough that year to do so. The same can apply to 94, where you can more than make a case that Adelaide wouldn't have happened in the first place had Schumacher been unfairly punished and the title would and should have been decided long before then.

Still, if you want to look at the history of F1 just through your statistics book, go for it, but your the one who is missing out, not me. Saying, that, I can understand why Schumacher fans would do that. That way it ignores all the controversy in his career, which anyone who has watched his career will be fully aware of, but the stat's won't show that. Same for Senna, Clark etc who would all won surely won more had they not died. As I said, it's your loss if you only want to see F1 with a statistical book. Why bother watching the races some could argue, just look at the results when the race is completed