Barnhart getting a Dallara kickback?

[NickFalzone]

Mark, I'll concede that last year wasn't as good as the year before. don't think any sport can produce a cliffhanger every time. As far as ratings go, it was tobe expected. $$$$ again. Hang millions in front of the big networks and they;ll snarf 'em up. That doesn't work financially. There is no magic wand. IZOD as a sponsor will help. The fact Versus is paying will help. But, between the sanctioning body and teams, there are huge dollars involved, which play a part in the decision-making. A big part.

IC do you really believe that the IRL has been steadily losing fanbase because of less advertising promoting the sport? I think Indy Car racing, as we know it in North America, has gotten very stale and it needs a significant on-track change to have a shot at getting back into the public's consciousness. IZOD, VS/NBC, and madison ave, they are a crucial part, but what they are running up against is a public that just is more interested in NASCAR type racing. The racing the IRL puts on is not necessarily bad, but it has fallen out of favor with the public. I do believe that changing what is on track, and marketing that change (along with marketing drivers, et al) is highly important in growing the series again. I am of the belief that if Delta got the project, what goes on track 2 years from now will look quite a bit more like an IndyCar than what we have in this car-show prototype. But it will stand out quite a bit in the marketplace, and that's very important.

[px400r]

It is the job of the IRL to control costs and make sure it's a level playing field. Dan Gurney wrote a White Paper, created a stock block engine that could compete, put Rocky Moran in it and almost won Watking Glen. They kicked him off the board and emasculated his engine because they were heavily invested in Cosworths. Roger Penske controlled the Ilmor, which became the engine of choice, and doled them out for brokered board votes by the teaspoon. It was terribly ill-advised that TG formed a race team after his organization started life as the modicum of integrity. If Ganassi and Bowlby are in cahoots, we have the same thing and I don't want that. So, while some blame Barnhart, he knows where the bear did it in the woods and so far, he has maintained a level playing field rather well.

IC, the IRL/Barnhart hasn't been doing a good job at "controlling costs and leveling the playing field." And it's also his apparent favor for Dallara that has gotten many of us suspicious (much like Penske and the CART owners, to use your words).

And the playing field is level only if you're Penske or Ganassi.

[V12]

And the playing field is level only if you're Penske or Ganassi.

Yep, Penske and Ganassi have been more dominant (as a duopoly) than ever since the Dallara-Honda combo became ubiquitous.

In the past, you could sneak a surprise result if your Lola or Goodyears or whatever happened to suit the track and conditions better than his Reynard or Firestones for example. Penske spent quite a few years in the doldrums, a lot of which was down to their own chassis being uncompetitive.

If you take away all these variables, then its inevitable that the most resourced and experienced teams will iterate over the fine details until they are at the front - and then they'll stay there.

To be honest I've never understood the whole "level playing field" argument anyway. Even in an open formula everyone's cars are built to the same regulations - that to me is a level playing field. This is a sport and in sports you generally get some people who do better than others.

At least the cost/economies of scale argument is a more reasonable one, but are they saying that if the economy picks up they'll open it out again? I doubt it, spec series have been around in boom-times (for the general world economy) as well as bust.

They started off as a curious gimmick and rarity back in the days of Formula Vauxhall/Opel Lotus for example, but now they've infiltrated pretty much everywhere bar F1, F3 and FFord (as far as professional open wheel racing is concerned). And I think they've overstayed their welcome.

[px400r]

To be honest I've never understood the whole "level playing field" argument anyway. Even in an open formula everyone's cars are built to the same regulations - that to me is a level playing field. This is a sport and in sports you generally get some people who do better than others.

At least the cost/economies of scale argument is a more reasonable one, but are they saying that if the economy picks up they'll open it out again? I doubt it, spec series have been around in boom-times (for the general world economy) as well as bust.

Having thought about this for a while, I think the only way to truly level the playing field is the "lead trophy" approach used in touring cars. Simply put, Penske and Ganassi would have heavier cars than everyone else. Maybe give them an additional aero disadvantage.

[V12]

Having thought about this for a while, I think the only way to truly level the playing field is the "lead trophy" approach used in touring cars. Simply put, Penske and Ganassi would have heavier cars than everyone else. Maybe give them an additional aero disadvantage.

In all honesty though, that wouldn't be a level playing field, since successful teams are having to effectively run to different rules as others, I've never been a fan of penalising success in this way, indeed no other sport does it. You don't see Tiger Woods (well, before his recent absence) have to start a golf tournament a few shots behind, or Roger Federer having to start a tennis match a set behind his opponent, or Man Utd or Barcelona starting a football league season on negative points just for winning it the previous year. In fact the only thing I can think of that comes close is the draft system employed by many US "sports" that gives the best picks to the worst teams of the previous season.

[indycool]

Ken, my expectations bare for very modest improvement.


Nick, the split hurt, It's like marketing the SPORT from the grond up now. More ovals helps. Centennial Era at Indy helps. Texas helps. But it'a long way home.

[px400r]

In all honesty though, that wouldn't be a level playing field, since successful teams are having to effectively run to different rules as others, I've never been a fan of penalising success in this way, indeed no other sport does it. You don't see Tiger Woods (well, before his recent absence) have to start a golf tournament a few shots behind, or Roger Federer having to start a tennis match a set behind his opponent, or Man Utd or Barcelona starting a football league season on negative points just for winning it the previous year. In fact the only thing I can think of that comes close is the draft system employed by many US "sports" that gives the best picks to the worst teams of the previous season.

The draft doesn't equalize competition. What has given the illusion of equalized competition is allowing mediocre teams to make the post season playoffs. Just because a team wins the most (i.e., consistently) during a long season doesn't guarantee them a championship. In fact, a less talented team can win it all by going on a hot streak at the right time. To me, that's penalizing a successful team.

But the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL all do it in the name of "competition." They realized that by giving more teams a chance to become winners, the better off the sport in terms of fans interest. For example, it was fine when the Canadiens dominated hockey when there were only (literally) a handful of teams. But do you really think the NHL can survive if only 4 teams out of 30 make the playoffs (and a shot at winning the Stanley Cup) every year?

What Indy Car needs to survive is to expand. By expansion I mean finding a way to make more teams competitive. If that takes penalizing Penske and Ganassi in some way, then I'm all for it. After all, doing nothing and letting those 5 or 6 cars run away from the field has definitely not helped.

[Mark in Oshawa]

IC, the IRL/Barnhart hasn't been doing a good job at "controlling costs and leveling the playing field." And it's also his apparent favor for Dallara that has gotten many of us suspicious (much like Penske and the CART owners, to use your words).

And the playing field is level only if you're Penske or Ganassi.

Here Here!!! Can't say more than that....

[methanolHuffer]

Penske will retire one of these days. Chip Ganasty has been a big-timer in more than just Open Wheel Racing for awhile now.
Andretti (mike) isn't much of a leader in my opinion.

Lot's of old guys getting fed up with it all.