Dallara's 2012 proposals

[shazbot]

When you allow one chassis, that is all we are allowed to look at. Also note, with wind tunnels directing design, most designs will look VERY similar....

But it's not about looks, it's about racing. Maybe I'm just living in the past. Non of the above designs are particularly radical, so why bother? If radical is what you want then why not go the whole hog and have closed cockpits. The IRL bears no resemblance to its CART or Champ Car/Indy Car history anyway so why not? An open wheel version of the Peugeot Le Mans Car.

[Claus Hansen]

I think they should go with the Swift Formula Nippon car, they already have Toyota and Honda engines, i dont see another coming in, and on the plus side, when they race at Motegi, the Formula Nippon can enter too...

[call_me_andrew]

How sad that the once innovative US open wheel racing scene is reduced to this crap. I never thought I'd see the day when a new race car is promoted on how it looks more than any other consideration. Well I suppose, like NASCAR it is 'entertainment' first, motor racing second.

All professional sports are entertainment first these days.

[Scheckterfan54]

I am no sports car expert, but this car(whether made by dallara or not) looks very similar to concept #3

http://robmurrayphotography.smugmug....78339490_hzxMg

[Mark in Oshawa]

But it's not about looks, it's about racing. Maybe I'm just living in the past. Non of the above designs are particularly radical, so why bother? If radical is what you want then why not go the whole hog and have closed cockpits. The IRL bears no resemblance to its CART or Champ Car/Indy Car history anyway so why not? An open wheel version of the Peugeot Le Mans Car.

I have news for you Shazbot. If the car is butt ugly, you think people will be attracted to the sport? Look no further than Grand AM. Some of the best racing on the track every weekend they race, yet ALMS out draws them because ALMS has cars that excite the imagination and perform like rockets.

THe car will be likely be wind tunnel designed...for the wind knows what it likes, but it would be nice for someone to have an eye for aesthetics....

Racing is entertainment, and we all go for various reasons, but a lot of us are just fans of cars, and I never saw anyone get excited about ugly cars. Furthermore, if there isn't a multitude of chassis available, this wont work either...

THAT is what irks me, they likely will have just one chassis from the sounds of things...THAT wont work for a lot of us...

[Chamoo]

THAT is what irks me, they likely will have just one chassis from the sounds of things...THAT wont work for a lot of us...

I hope Randy Bernard gets that.

[shazbot]

I have news for you Shazbot. If the car is butt ugly, you think people will be attracted to the sport? Look no further than Grand AM. Some of the best racing on the track every weekend they race, yet ALMS out draws them because ALMS has cars that excite the imagination and perform like rockets.

THe car will be likely be wind tunnel designed...for the wind knows what it likes, but it would be nice for someone to have an eye for aesthetics....

Racing is entertainment, and we all go for various reasons, but a lot of us are just fans of cars, and I never saw anyone get excited about ugly cars. Furthermore, if there isn't a multitude of chassis available, this wont work either...

THAT is what irks me, they likely will have just one chassis from the sounds of things...THAT wont work for a lot of us...

Yeah, I know. I was involved with a Le Mans effort in the late '90's and even then the manufacturer sent stylists out to add clay to the wind tunnel model. They supplied us with model parts as well. Needless to say the first of these parts tested was really bad aero wise, so we didn't even bother with the rest. Just told them they didn't fit the model (which most didn't actually).

Like you I'm a car fan as well. I'm just as interested in the design of a car and a spec series leaves me totally cold. I should know as I have first hand experience. The initial development (we are talking aero here as that's my profession) is pretty interesting as you have a target to meet, but once you are there and the car is finished, that's it. No development. No competition. No vested interest in watching the same cars running around, no new challenge on Monday morning. I wonder how many of the casual (and not so casual) fans realise the effort that goes into aero development in a competitive series. Little bits of motor racing history now gathering dust on a shelf somewhere. Closed top LMP BMW anyone?

Yes the racing in GrandAm is good, but these are close to spec racers as well. GrandAm won't allow any real innovation - they even wind tunnel test all the cars at once to make sure that they are all similar. That is an anathema to me.

The only place for free thinkers these days is in club racing. Some of the clases have very open rules and consequently you get some very clever people (and some not too smart, but that's part of it) producing some interesting cars. Back in the day Patrick Head cut his engineering teeth at this level, but there are very few avenues now for budding designers. The Formula Student idea is great, but where does that lead?

I wonder if there's any scope for a spec tub in the IRL. Maybe even a spec naked rolling chassis. At least that way we might have some innovation without costs sky rocketing? Give that contract to a US based manufacturer and open up the nose, sidepods, wings, underfloor etc, etc to anyone that fancies thier chances?

[nigelred5]

I am no sports car expert, but this car(whether made by dallara or not) looks very similar to concept #3

http://robmurrayphotography.smugmug....78339490_hzxMg

That's basically what I was getting at. Look at pictures of the Pugeot and the Audi R8 instead of the above R10.

[SUBARUTEAM]

i like the new swift but I'd bet the house on Dallara's design getting the nod

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yeah, I know. I was involved with a Le Mans effort in the late '90's and even then the manufacturer sent stylists out to add clay to the wind tunnel model. They supplied us with model parts as well. Needless to say the first of these parts tested was really bad aero wise, so we didn't even bother with the rest. Just told them they didn't fit the model (which most didn't actually).

Like you I'm a car fan as well. I'm just as interested in the design of a car and a spec series leaves me totally cold. I should know as I have first hand experience. The initial development (we are talking aero here as that's my profession) is pretty interesting as you have a target to meet, but once you are there and the car is finished, that's it. No development. No competition. No vested interest in watching the same cars running around, no new challenge on Monday morning. I wonder how many of the casual (and not so casual) fans realise the effort that goes into aero development in a competitive series. Little bits of motor racing history now gathering dust on a shelf somewhere. Closed top LMP BMW anyone?

Yes the racing in GrandAm is good, but these are close to spec racers as well. GrandAm won't allow any real innovation - they even wind tunnel test all the cars at once to make sure that they are all similar. That is an anathema to me.

The only place for free thinkers these days is in club racing. Some of the clases have very open rules and consequently you get some very clever people (and some not too smart, but that's part of it) producing some interesting cars. Back in the day Patrick Head cut his engineering teeth at this level, but there are very few avenues now for budding designers. The Formula Student idea is great, but where does that lead?

I wonder if there's any scope for a spec tub in the IRL. Maybe even a spec naked rolling chassis. At least that way we might have some innovation without costs sky rocketing? Give that contract to a US based manufacturer and open up the nose, sidepods, wings, underfloor etc, etc to anyone that fancies thier chances?

I am for what you are saying, and I want to see development BUT the thing is, the series is on life support, so one team spending millions on wind tunnel time will win..and we all know Roger and Chip will use their money to win if they can find it. I do think they wont spend as much as maybe one should to really develop a car, but they can really develop the car in small increments.

I don't want a spec series...but I suppose I do want some handle kept on things to an extent as well. I think having competition for chassis will be where it starts...and see what happens in the years afterwards.

The DP's not changing much is because they are kept in a tight box, but there is subtle development going on in that series. The new chassis ideas coming out and new engines keep it at least in theory evolving......

It is a thorny issue...but from what I have seen,I like the Swift proposals the best so far....