Stefan GP, to take part in the 2010 ?

[Saint Devote]

Sorry if I'm not friends with your chums but I perceive him in a different light. You look at the positive he's brought to the sport from a commercial point of view. I look at his attention-seeking comments in the media, his prioritising of his own assets and his manipulative approach to governing the sport.

Ask Ron Tauranac, see what he says.

Yes, the Bernie I am familiar with goes back 36 years, and his accomplishments from multiple world championship team principle who recognized Gordon Murray's ability and was the first to seek Senna's signature, to his generosity when helping friends and those who he is fond of are all real.

And other more private acts of generosity of time and so on.

But you resent him because he is a businessman that acts properly by acting in his own rational self-interest in the world that exists today - his focus is that F1 flourishes.

And the result of this?
A sport that is third only to the Olympics and World Cup Soccer.
His accomplishments have made many people wealthy and I have never heard any F1 team complain that they are too comfortable.

And a sport that we are able to watch because of Bernie's efforts.

You are an ungrateful fan of this sport, without interest of discovering who Bernie Ecclestone is and without any respect for his accomplishments.

And you believe what the media say about him.

Bernie may be reported as saying outrageous things - but he talks using examples and euphymisms. The way the press use it is the result of the current collapse of journalist ethics.

Ron Tauranac wanted the Brabham team but it was sold by Jack Brabham to Bernie. And Ecclestone turned it into an even greater team. Tauranac was left out. There may be resentment and that is unfortunate because Tauranac accomplished a lot as well.

I presume that you are not a fan of Sebastian "Nigel Mansell" Vettel? How can you be, after all, he is the driver that is closest to Bernie who is his confidente.

Must be something to do with Vettel being a smart cookie - the only driver that manages himself. Bernie likes smart accomplished people.

[52Paddy]

and was the first to seek Senna's signature

Interesting one that. Ecclestone helped Senna a lot during his career yet never attended his funeral. He "doesn't believe in all that business". I'm not slating him for that, in fact I'm quite impressed at how he has such an ability to stick to his own guns and be his own man. I'm just saying, that despite all that, I still think he's a pr!ck.

And other more private acts of generosity of time and so on.

Which, to me, is like Hitler handing out chocolates to school children.

But you resent him because he is a businessman that acts properly by acting in his own rational self-interest in the world that exists today - his focus is that F1 flourishes.

I resent him because he is ruthless and manipulative. His way of doing things generates a lot of money - people within the sport get richer, consumers benefit from more exposure. But, in my view, he puts the money in front of the sport. I don't think his focus is that F1 flourishes per se - I think it's that F1 creates a large revenue constantly. And, that, he's good at doing. But introducing a medal system to improve the spectacle?!? I can hardly believe that will increase the spectacle, even if it may increase the viewership.

And the result of this?
A sport that is third only to the Olympics and World Cup Soccer.
His accomplishments have made many people wealthy and I have never heard any F1 team complain that they are too comfortable.

And a sport that we are able to watch because of Bernie's efforts.

You are an ungrateful fan of this sport, without interest of discovering who Bernie Ecclestone is and without any respect for his accomplishments.

I've already stated that I do respect his accomplishments. I never said I was ungrateful for what he has achieved and I think he's a genius negotiator. But, as of late, I find his ideas and projection of the sport's future a little absurd/senile. And, if someone as apathetic as him (Bernie always does his own thing, he won't be bossed around) is still in charge in today's sport, it will do more damage to my image of the sport than good. Call me outdated if you will, but Bernie has always considered F1, the "entertainment" business - a point he made when asked about F1Rocks in recent years.

And you believe what the media say about him.

Bernie may be reported as saying outrageous things - but he talks using examples and euphymisms. The way the press use it is the result of the current collapse of journalist ethics.

No, not necessarily. I don't believe everything in the media. I mentioned that he is an attention-seeker. His comments about shortcuts, for example, were madly far-fetched (not that I don't think he could be stopped if he legitimately wanted them). Why does he do this? Create the impression that he is the be all and end all? Scare the opposition?

Ron Tauranac wanted the Brabham team but it was sold by Jack Brabham to Bernie. And Ecclestone turned it into an even greater team. Tauranac was left out.

Not how I read it. Ecclestone, in my opinion, is a control-freak, and the two differing accounts of the Brabham buy-out highlight that. It would be very long-winded to explain Tauranac's actual account of the situation on a thread, but basically: Tauranac was done out of a deal. He wanted to enter the partnership with Ecclestone (he was cautious about doing so and only did it because Jochen Rindt has mentioned Bernie) who would pay £130,000. However, when push came to shove, Ecclestone had said that only £100,000 was on the table. Tauranac did not stand firm this time, and settled for this. What's worse is that, Ecclestone now the managing director, Tauranac went off on his usual 2 week skiing holiday at Christmas to find out his salary had been cut-off when he returned! Ecclestone was trying to oust him from the beginning. As part of that deal he got five DFVs and two cars which equalled almost half the stock and then Tauranac was shoved out. Now, he did great things with the Brabham team, did Bernie. But I absolutely hate his character in that light and he shows no empathy.

I presume that you are not a fan of Sebastian "Nigel Mansell" Vettel? How can you be, after all, he is the driver that is closest to Bernie who is his confidente.

My opinion of people is not drawn from who their friends are. I judge people on my perceptions of the person themselves alone. Nobody else enters my judgement. I like Vettel. And if he likes Bernie and gets on well with him, then fair play to him. I think Vettel is a promising talent who will one day be champion. I also think his persona fits the sport very well from a racing and off-track POV.

I don't hate you for liking Bernie. Your points are very well made out and I agree what major achievements lie on his CV are impressive and have helped the sport. But, I don't like the way he works or his lack of regard for so many people, including hardcore fans. He wants F1 to prosper financially and I can only see that as the height of his aspirations now. Somebody else should take over. He's getting old and his glorious work of the past, where he got so much exposure for F1, has now maxed out.

I resent him because he is ruthless and manipulative.

Just out of interest, on that basis is there anybody in F1 that you do like?

Ruthless and manipulative are omnipresent in F1.

[52Paddy]

Just out of interest, on that basis is there anybody in F1 that you do like?

Ruthless and manipulative are omnipresent in F1.

Plenty of people. But Bernie is way ahead in this league tamb. His ruthlessness, I find, is to generate more and more money. Going off to far out countries to host races at stupid hour (Malaysia 09?) where the general population do not follow F1 is one of the extremes he will go to to generate more money - because those countries will pay more for a race. We loose great tracks, we get a good few crap ones (not all of them). Ruthlessness is a great trait to have if you use if for the greater good, and not to line your own wallet.

[Daz]

I hope Stefan GP get a plave for the Bahrain GP as I'd be suprised if either USF1 or Campos make it there. I'm sure Stefan GP are feeling very confident about racing in Bahrain as otherwise why would they have sent kit out there already.

[Garry Walker]

I presume that you are not a fan of Sebastian "Nigel Mansell" Vettel?.

[K-Pu]

I think the asking price ought to be whatever the market can bear - it is the only way to calculate value. And there is a LIST of countries seeking to hold a grand prix.

Yes, but is it better to have a country paying the fee only to host a GP with empty grandstands because no one cares about F1 there or people simply have not enough money to buy tickets, or having a GP in a country with interest in F1 but not willing to lose money because the fee is waaay bigger than the GP income even with a crowd at the track?

I liked the medal system but equally thought that points be awarded as well.

But the only-medal system (his system) was quite pointless. Why bother racing if you can´t do anything but winning? What´s the point of being at the midfield?

The CVC has nothing to do with me and how can I judge something when I am not privy to all the neccessary details?

I can´t explain why did Bernie take such a loan from CVC and now keeps rising the GP fees... Sometimes mysteries overlap and raise suspicions...

I like Sakhir, always have. Yas Marina - at first I did not, but I do now. I do have moral reservations over the above four places, but Bernie has to deal with reality and act rationally. How can he drop the price for the traditional races that have been lost while asking others to pay far more. Silverstone has anted up and so has Canada - if they can, anyone else should have to as well.

They build 800 m. high skyscrappers in Dubai because they have money to spare. Lots of money. What it is more strange... if they have so mcuh money, why do they pay the workers only between 3 and 6 euros a day? Didn´t they have MONEY in capitals? Then, apart from the elite, no one has enough money to attend a F1 race in these countries, and that´s reality too. Anyway, his reality is a bit detached from that one, and it´s reduced to business. Of course, it´s good business for him since he can get more money from Abu Dhabi than from France...

For me to state that I know better than the man who created the F1 we know and love as to what is good for F1 in these cases would be a most arrongant and conceited action.

I dont know what you have to complain about - Spain is where all the testing is done, there TWO grands prix each year and THREE Spanish drivers. I'd have thought you would LOVE Bernie!

That does not mean I agree with Bernie´s methods nor I love him. In fact. it´s quite the opposite since Valencia Street Sedation is one of the worst tracks ever made and has a quite obscure history of political corruption behind it, and Montmeló is nothing special... The two races are quite boring, and believe me, when it´s time for a GP here in Spain, I prefer to be hiding under a stone because of the media. Yes, we are that stupid here. What´s more strange, testing receives NO ATTENTION by the media, apart from the obvious "Fernando-is-gonna-destroy-´em-all" which is getting quite tiresome since 2004...

We have three Spanish drivers, yes, but how many Germans, for example? Are all the Spanish drivers bought by Bernie? I don´t think so, but one thing is sure: Valencia has put forward enough money to buy the GP just because of politics, or more precisely, politicians. Here, the right wing claimed openly that if they didn´t win the elections in Valencia, we could say goodbye to the GP. That was their threat... Which misteriously coincides with Bernie´s wettest dreams.

Strange.

Yes, strange.

[Saint Devote]

Yes, but is it better to have a country paying the fee only to host a GP with empty grandstands because no one cares about F1 there or people simply have not enough money to buy tickets, or having a GP in a country with interest in F1 but not willing to lose money because the fee is waaay bigger than the GP income even with a crowd at the track?



But the only-medal system (his system) was quite pointless. Why bother racing if you can´t do anything but winning? What´s the point of being at the midfield?



I can´t explain why did Bernie take such a loan from CVC and now keeps rising the GP fees... Sometimes mysteries overlap and raise suspicions...



They build 800 m. high skyscrappers in Dubai because they have money to spare. Lots of money. What it is more strange... if they have so mcuh money, why do they pay the workers only between 3 and 6 euros a day? Didn´t they have MONEY in capitals? Then, apart from the elite, no one has enough money to attend a F1 race in these countries, and that´s reality too. Anyway, his reality is a bit detached from that one, and it´s reduced to business. Of course, it´s good business for him since he can get more money from Abu Dhabi than from France...





That does not mean I agree with Bernie´s methods nor I love him. In fact. it´s quite the opposite since Valencia Street Sedation is one of the worst tracks ever made and has a quite obscure history of political corruption behind it, and Montmeló is nothing special... The two races are quite boring, and believe me, when it´s time for a GP here in Spain, I prefer to be hiding under a stone because of the media. Yes, we are that stupid here. What´s more strange, testing receives NO ATTENTION by the media, apart from the obvious "Fernando-is-gonna-destroy-´em-all" which is getting quite tiresome since 2004...

We have three Spanish drivers, yes, but how many Germans, for example? Are all the Spanish drivers bought by Bernie? I don´t think so, but one thing is sure: Valencia has put forward enough money to buy the GP just because of politics, or more precisely, politicians. Here, the right wing claimed openly that if they didn´t win the elections in Valencia, we could say goodbye to the GP. That was their threat... Which misteriously coincides with Bernie´s wettest dreams.



Yes, strange.

'Tis the task of Bernie to run F1, not any one of us. It does not mean that I like every decision he decides - but I am confident that he does what is neccessary and the best for F1 to flourish and make the most money he can for himself.

I prefer that the general media do not to follow F1, but rather the motor racing publications only. Too many people following F1 brings "popular opinion" which is usually horribly ignorant.

I like Bernie. He is loyal to his friends and generous and compassionate to those he considers worthy.

[jens]

Say it isn't so!

Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...er-schumacher/

Ralf Schumacher? Now this is getting silly!

What is silly? If Stefan wants an experienced driver, Ralf is as good option as they can get considering the driver market at the moment. If anything, signing Ralf would show the seriousness of the project, because he isn't any kind of a paydriver many teams have been seeking for. Maybe above all you want to question whether Ralf is motivated, but I think if he agrees to make a comeback in such start-up team, he is motivated, because surely he would be paid merely peanuts at SGP. He would be paid more at DTM by Mercedes and I thought he already has a contract for a '10 season this year with them?

[ArrowsFA1]

I hope Stefan GP get a plave for the Bahrain GP as I'd be suprised if either USF1 or Campos make it there.

There are increasing suggestions Campos won't make it into F1 this season and USF1 could miss three races.

http://twitter.com/byronf1