Mobile phones & tablets thread

[CaptainRaiden]

Nope, never experienced that as being a limitation either

Not for you, but for a lot of other people, yes, 16 GB is too less for $600. People complained, Microsoft listened.

Don't be surprised if the next iPad has proper connector ports and more storage.

[Jag_Warrior]

So, what Apple essentially is, is a fancy premium brand for people who don't really care what's inside their computer as long as it works.

I would say that's an overly simplistic way of trying to summarize Apple Corporation and its success. Pointing out one possible factor for a company's success, and then trying to claim that that is the only reason, is a slippery logical slope in my world. But when ideology is involved, people do attempt it from time to time. It usually results in a bad fall (or fail) though.

As far as the Corvette vs Ferrari comparison, aren't most of the Corvettes made out of plastic? It was only recently with the ZR1 that they went the aluminum-carbon fiber route. At least with Ferrari, you don't have to worry about that as they've long been made entirely out of carbon fiber. So, when you buy a Ferrari, you get the marquee name (I don't see Corvette or Chevrolet being a big name in racing, and so what Ferrari is essentially charging you for is to fund their F1 program ), + you get "slightly" better performance + the assurance that you'll probably be alive in case of an accident.

So, there are pluses.

I'm not a Corvette expert, but I believe certain portions of the Corvette's body are made from fiber reinforced plastic. But why would one need to worry more about that? If you crash either one (FRP or carbon fiber), you're going to spend a mint to fix either one. And if there is actual data showing the Ferrari 458 to be a safer car than the Corvette (Z06 or ZR1), I'm not aware of it. But I seriously doubt that's a concern for most sports car buyers anyway. Both cars have well engineered survival cells and both are at least reasonably safe, to the best of my knowledge. As for neither Corvette nor Chevrolet being a big name in racing... uh... well... the last time I checked, Chevrolet was pretty big in NASCAR and Corvette has been doing more than OK at Le Mans over the past decade. But is Ferrari the biggest name in racing? Yes, it's one of the biggest name in all of sports. Establishing brand value is important to any and all consumer focused companies.

So, you have actually not gotten around to using smartphones yet. Do me a favor and use Galaxy S2 and iPhone 4S with an unbiased view, and tell me why Apple deserves the extra $150.

No, I have no desire for a smartphone currently - although I do have a 4th gen iPod Touch. My girlfriend has an iPhone 4, which replaced her previous iPhone. I've used hers many times. To me it's a telephone version of my iPod Touch. Big whoop! It's a phone. Unless the Samsung S2, S3 or S10 will be able to make me breakfast and rub my feet at night, they're just phones too. I've played with lots of smartphones, including the Blackberry that I refused to use when a former company issued it to me. I opted for a feature flip phone. In what I do, and being established enough, if one needs to communicate with me when I'm out of the office, I expect one to call me... not text me or send me a Blackberry message. I do not respond to text messages. I gave up the feature phone when I left that company, and with my personal cell phone being truly ancient now, sooner than later, I know that I'll have to get a new phone. Since I'm already in the iOS ecosystem, the iPhone would be an easy choice. But maybe I'll just get another dumb phone. I don't know. It won't change my life either way. I'll put more thought into what my next car will be than what my next phone will be.

No doubt, Apple products are considered trouble-free by some. But hey, you go clicking on naughtykitty.biz or on an ad that says "You've won the lottery", I don't care if it's OS X Pantelionepard, your computer WILL get infected.

I'm not an IT guy. I can't tell you specifically why various corporate IT depts have banned Android devices from their networks. But since I'm assuming that naughtykitty.biz, and other such sites, are already blocked, I sort of doubt that has anything to do with it. It apparently has more to do with the prevalence of malware within apps in the Android community.

I saw a Macbook Air on sale a couple of days ago:
Older generation (Nehalem architecture) - 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 processor
4GB DDR3 RAM; 500 GB Hard Drive
15.4 inch LED-backlit display, 1440-by-900 resolution
NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 512MB Graphics
Mac OS X v10.7 Lion, 7 Hour Battery Life
Price: $1794


I also saw a Dell XPS at the same shop:
Newer Generation (Sandy Bridge Architecture) Intel Core i7 2640M Processor 2.8GHz
6GB DIMM RAM; 750GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
15.6-Inch Screen, 1400X900 resolution
NVIDIA GeForce GT 525M - 1 GB Graphics
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Price: $959.99


Please tell me why, for inferior hardware, the Macbook deserves the extra $800. Thanks.

The easy answer is that consumer demand justifies both price points. That's just how it works. And the big (interesting) difference is, the higher priced product is still flying off the shelves, while the lower priced product continues to struggle. If I'm not mistaken, Dell has fallen on rather hard times of late and has experienced some inventory, customer service, sales and revenue issues over the past 3-5 years. Rather than worrying about why Apple is able to (successfully) charge so much, maybe the better question would be, why can't Dell move these *superior* products while charging so much less? Maybe the perception of the consumer (the only perception that matters) is that they're actually not so superior after all. But I really don't know... that's for the guys in marketing to figure out. I just remember when both Dell and Apple were $50 stocks though. Now AAPL is around $580 and DELL is around $12. I would suggest that the Dell guys try to figure out what they've done wrong and what Apple has done right... and not the other way around. Remember, Dell once had a really good brand name too. How times have changed. Remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyQOTEpHxLw

[ArrowsFA1]

People complained, Microsoft listened.

That would have been very altruistic of Microsoft if true.

Bottom line is they need to be in the tablet market. With millions being sold, the majority of them iPads, they simply cannot afford to be left behind. Whether they've got it right only time will tell, but pursuading iPad users to switch will be a hard task.

[CaptainRaiden]

I would say that's an overly simplistic way of trying to summarize Apple Corporation and its success. Pointing out one possible factor for a company's success, and then trying to claim that that is the only reason, is a slippery logical slope in my world. But when ideology is involved, people do attempt it from time to time. It usually results in a bad fall (or fail) though.

The term "over-simplistic" is used a couple of times by you in this thread. First of all, I assume and it seems like I'm the only person in this thread who cares about what tech goes into the gadgets I buy, who can build his own PC, and miraculously keep Dell products running without any failures, so in my opinion, buying Apple products and paying close to 50% more money just because "it works" without looking at what you're getting inside the box is rather noobish and "over-simplistic" as well.

I have assembled enough PCs and conversed with enough tech people to know how criminal Apple's premium really is. I have put forth tech questions in this thread, and instead of valid answers, all I've gotten is "I don't care bout the hardware", "It looks nicer" and "It's convenient and easier to use." I can't believe people are actually justifying $800 extra for inferior hardware to be okay. How much more can an OS do if the hardware isn't up there? Ever thought about that?

I'm not a Corvette expert, but I believe certain portions of the Corvette's body are made from fiber reinforced plastic. But why would one need to worry more about that? If you crash either one (FRP or carbon fiber), you're going to spend a mint to fix either one. And if there is actual data showing the Ferrari 458 to be a safer car than the Corvette (Z06 or ZR1), I'm not aware of it. But I seriously doubt that's a concern for most sports car buyers anyway. Both cars have well engineered survival cells and both are at least reasonably safe, to the best of my knowledge. As for neither Corvette nor Chevrolet being a big name in racing... uh... well... the last time I checked, Chevrolet was pretty big in NASCAR and Corvette has been doing more than OK at Le Mans over the past decade. But is Ferrari the biggest name in racing? Yes, it's one of the biggest name in all of sports. Establishing brand value is important to any and all consumer focused companies.

I believe the majority of Z06's body is made out of plastic. Isn't carbon fiber at least 10 times more resistant than plastic in case of a crash? Isn't that why all F1 cars or any high performance racing machines are entirely built out of carbon fiber. It's not about how much you'll spend to fix it, it's about safety and whether that steering wheel is going to go through your chest or not. Do you get a better quality engine, gearbox, paddle shifters with the Ferrari? Probably yes. So, I'd say inside and outside, you still get more with the Ferrari even for double the price.

But like I have posted my comparison a few posts ago, with the Macbook, you actually get inferior hardware. The graphic card in the Macbook Pro for $1795 is exactly half of the one in the $959 Dell XPS. 512 MB vs 1 GB, and GPU memory plays a BIG role in any graphic intensive task on a computer. So, for the extra $800, I am getting an inferior product.

No, I have no desire for a smartphone currently - although I do have a 4th gen iPod Touch. My girlfriend has an iPhone 4, which replaced her previous iPhone. I've used hers many times. To me it's a telephone version of my iPod Touch. Big whoop! It's a phone. Unless the Samsung S2, S3 or S10 will be able to make me breakfast and rub my feet at night, they're just phones too. I've played with lots of smartphones, including the Blackberry that I refused to use when a former company issued it to me. I opted for a feature flip phone. In what I do, and being established enough, if one needs to communicate with me when I'm out of the office, I expect one to call me... not text me or send me a Blackberry message. I do not respond to text messages. I gave up the feature phone when I left that company, and with my personal cell phone being truly ancient now, sooner than later, I know that I'll have to get a new phone. Since I'm already in the iOS ecosystem, the iPhone would be an easy choice. But maybe I'll just get another dumb phone. I don't know. It won't change my life either way. I'll put more thought into what my next car will be than what my next phone will be.

Well, since you have never extensively compared nor used a smartphone, then you can't really comment on whether the iPhone is better or even know how Apple is charging its customers silly money and once again, providing an inferior product. Without going into too many details, the Galaxy S2 was universally regarded as the phone of the year 2011 by experts all over the world, and the only phone to receive a 5/5 rating at techradar.com where even the "amazing" iPhone 4S got 4/5. Yet it is $150 cheaper than the iPhone 4S, and the sheep mentality of Apple customers kept it above by a hair.

I'm not an IT guy. I can't tell you specifically why various corporate IT depts have banned Android devices from their networks. But since I'm assuming that naughtykitty.biz, and other such sites, are already blocked, I sort of doubt that has anything to do with it. It apparently has more to do with the prevalence of malware within apps in the Android community.

I seriously don't know how these folks get infected. I've been using Windows for the last decade and a half, and Android products for the last 3 years. I've got Avast on my PC and AVG on my phone, and I have installed possibly over 200 applications and games on my computer and mobile combined. Not once have I got even one error, and I'm not the most anal guy when it comes to security. One would have to be REALLY careless to get infected or have the hard drive crash on them.

The easy answer is that consumer demand justifies both price points. That's just how it works. And the big (interesting) difference is, the higher priced product is still flying off the shelves, while the lower priced product continues to struggle. If I'm not mistaken, Dell has fallen on rather hard times of late and has experienced some inventory, customer service, sales and revenue issues over the past 3-5 years. Rather than worrying about why Apple is able to (successfully) charge so much, maybe the better question would be, why can't Dell move these *superior* products while charging so much less? Maybe the perception of the consumer (the only perception that matters) is that they're actually not so superior after all. But I really don't know... that's for the guys in marketing to figure out. I just remember when both Dell and Apple were $50 stocks though. Now AAPL is around $580 and DELL is around $12. I would suggest that the Dell guys try to figure out what they've done wrong and what Apple has done right... and not the other way around. Remember, Dell once had a really good brand name too. How times have changed. Remember this?

I really can't believe people are trying to justify Apple charging $800 extra for inferior hardware. It's just amazing.

Second, you can't really compare Apple and Dell. Apple deals in smartphones, tablets, desktop PCs, laptops, MP3 players, set-top video interfacing like Apple TV etc. Whereas Dell is really one of the many PC vendors with their main business being only desktop PCs and laptops. So, of course their revenues are ALWAYS going to be MUCH lesser than Apple's. If you look at only the laptop and desktop sales, they are quite close.

Besides, Dell is only one of the many PC vendors, and might be Apple's main competitor in America, but that doesn't mean people don't buy desktops or laptops from a number of other PC vendors like HP, Sony, Acer, LG, Samsung, ASUS, MSI, Toshiba all around the world. On top of this, people who really know their stuff, prefer to build their own PC, which usually is close to $1000 to $1500 cheaper than a comparable iMac and does all of the same things. If you pool ALL of the PC vendor sales, it trumps Apple quite easily.

The worldwide OS share statistics is 60% Windows and 9% Mac as of April 2012. So, while Apple MAY have sold more laptops than Dell last year in America, it's a luxury brand for rich people and is nowhere near competing with PCs all over the world.

[CaptainRaiden]

That would have been very altruistic of Microsoft if true.

Bottom line is they need to be in the tablet market. With millions being sold, the majority of them iPads, they simply cannot afford to be left behind. Whether they've got it right only time will tell, but pursuading iPad users to switch will be a hard task.

Well, lack of connectivity, lack of storage and lack of expandable memory were one of the biggest gripes of tech-lovers regarding the iPad, which kept it from becoming a true replacement of notebooks.

And Microsoft have clearly included all of those features in their tablet while keeping the thickness the same as the iPad. I say good on them!

[ArrowsFA1]

Approximately 119 million tablets will reach consumers’ hands around the world this year, up from 60 million in 2011...Of those 119 million tablets, approximately 73 million, or 61%, will be iPads...despite increased competition from the likes of Amazon and Microsoft.

http://mashable.com/2012/04/11/tablet-sales-gartner/

That's one heck of a market to break for Microsoft. Good luck to them!

[CaptainRaiden]

http://mashable.com/2012/04/11/tablet-sales-gartner/

That's one heck of a market to break for Microsoft. Good luck to them!

Well, they just gotta keep advertising all the advantages the Surface has over the iPad, and they'll get there eventually.

I'm guessing a lot of netbook and notebook users who were hesitant before to switch to a tablet because it didn't have what they were looking for, might switch to the Surface or the more powerful Surface Pro.

I'm surprised iPad only has a 61% market share. I would have thought it'd be at least over 75%. Android is catching up fast, and with their new tablet optimized OS coming up over the next few months, if top electronics giants like Samsung and Sony come up with better tablets, it could be a tough battle.

[Dave B]

For me (and I fully accept that other's views may vary) a tablet needs to have an SD slot and HDMI out as essentials - not via clunky adaptors.

[CaptainRaiden]

People like me you mean? So its my fault my 6 month olf Dell laptop has developed a HD failure? I can assure you I don't look at midget porn and download from gore sites whilst having no protection on my PC. I have used AVG for years and my laptop scans everytime I use it. I have anti malware software running and treat my computer very well thank you. Just because this hasn't happened to you and you are superior to me because I don't build computers, it does not mean it can't happen. I had my Acer laptop for 5 years and never had a fault, I don't tell Acer customers that the only reason their computers break is because they are careless and because it never happened to me!! lol. No product is fullproof and they do fail, thats life.

Well, I must be REALLY lucky then, because my current Dell laptop is 6-8 months older than yours and is still running on the Win 7 install I did when I bought it. My 4 years old Dell is being used by my sister now, and as far as I can remember, she doesn't have a problem. My 7 year old Sony Vaio is being used by my father as an at-home printer to print stuff for his business, and to Skype with me when I'm away.

In my experience, the only time I had a hard drive failure, I'd have to say was 14 years ago when my ancient PC was running Windows 98, which developed bad sectors probably because of power outages and the fact that I wasn't using surge protectors.

Apart from that, honestly man, I've been super lucky with hard drives.

[CaptainRaiden]

They've got to appeal to the young generation mainly I think. Apple are very good with their marketing and appeal has grown because Apple make nice trendy looking devices that are cool. The iPad has also developed as a cult product and the name is firmly established as the number one tablet on the market. Microsoft can pack it with features and beat Apple on hardware and price, but that doesn't mean people will buy it.

It won't happen overnight, but IMO iPad's market share will decrease significantly over the next few years. It has dropped significantly already since 2010, which was a surprise for me.

Logically it would make sense to have better hardware for the money, but thats not at the top of everybodies list. Its like telling a kid that a pair of 'Gola' trainers does the same thing as a pair of 'Nike Air Max' for a fraction of the price. Just wait for their eyebrows to bolt up and tell you they are not trendy enough and all their friends will laugh at them.

Yeah, the thing is that we are not children anymore, and I don't buy stuff to impress anybody else anymore. I want the best tech for my money, and that's why I don't buy Apple.

The kid inside me does want the Galaxy S3 though, even though I don't need it, but it's still the most advanced smartphone money can buy right now, and so I might end up getting it.

An iPad may be inferior on some levels and I agree the Surface looks a damn fine device, but if its not popular and quickly, it'll fail. Its a massive gamble for Microsoft and I think they will succeed to a degree, but I think market domination is a big ask. But thats just my opinion

The hardware they've crammed in there is one half of the success pie, which as a non-tablet fan, impressed even me. But the other crucial half depends on their OS.