Mobile phones & tablets thread

[CaptainRaiden]

And once again, this lack of hardware choice is IMO something that gives Apple an advantage in software development. They only have to develop for a limited number of devices, where with Android or WP they have to develop for a lot of choices from a lot of companies.

I can't speak about WP, but I think as far as Android goes, it's an open source OS, and manufacturers develop their devices around it, and not the other way around. Google doesn't have much to do with that, they only provide the stock OS and license AFAIK. That's why Samsung, HTC, Motorola and Sony all have their own distinct UI overlaid on the stock Android OS for their devices. Some work well, some don't.

One advantage with Android is that if you don't want the useless UI or bloatware, you have the option to install the stock Android OS on your device, what is called "rooting", and it runs much faster, smoother and cleaner. If your device is lagging behind in the hardware department, there are apps that work only on rooted devices, which can overclock your processor to tide you over a bit longer.

Of course, for someone that doesn't want to tinker with these things, it doesn't matter which platform you choose anyway. But it's always nice to have that extra option.

[henners88]

There is the option to jailbreak an iPhone if you have the appropriate OS release too just to add. A friend of mine has his jail broken and has widgets, google search bar, Task killers etc on dedicated screens. Obviously with any software tweak it carries risk but I've never personally had the desire to do it or root any of the Android devices I owned previously. I'm yet to find something I can't do that I wish to do and enjoy the simple icon grid system iOS uses. For those who enjoy customisation though, there are options on most operating systems including iOS.

[BleAivano]

I can't speak about WP, but I think as far as Android goes, it's an open source OS, and manufacturers develop their devices around it, and not the other way around. Google doesn't have much to do with that, they only provide the stock OS and license AFAIK. That's why Samsung, HTC, Motorola and Sony all have their own distinct UI overlaid on the stock Android OS for their devices. Some work well, some don't.

One advantage with Android is that if you don't want the useless UI or bloatware, you have the option to install the stock Android OS on your device, what is called "rooting", and it runs much faster, smoother and cleaner. If your device is lagging behind in the hardware department, there are apps that work only on rooted devices, which can overclock your processor to tide you over a bit longer.

Of course, for someone that doesn't want to tinker with these things, it doesn't matter which platform you choose anyway. But it's always nice to have that extra option.

If i remember it correctly, Samsung will release new version of the S4 running stock android instead of Samsung's version of Android.

[henners88]

If i remember it correctly, Samsung will release new version of the S4 running stock android instead of Samsung's version of Android.

The HTC One also revealed the same plan, but sadly these models are not widely advertised.

[CaptainRaiden]

If i remember it correctly, Samsung will release new version of the S4 running stock android instead of Samsung's version of Android.

The HTC One also revealed the same plan, but sadly these models are not widely advertised.

Yep, and I think that's based largely on the success of the Nexus devices. Less hassle, less bloatware, no ugly UI, smoother, cleaner, faster. I won't be surprised if more manufacturers go that route with their devices in the future.

[henners88]

Yep, and I think that's based largely on the success of the Nexus devices. Less hassle, less bloatware, no ugly UI, smoother, cleaner, faster. I won't be surprised if more manufacturers go that route with their devices in the future.

Yeah I would imagine they will. There will always be those people who like the fancy widgets, animated features and manufacturer endorsed features though. They might slow the phone right down in comparison to stock Android, but there are those who are not bothered about the speed and performance just so long as it looks fancy. If I were to go back to Android in future I'd prefer the stock version as I just want it to be efficient and do the basic tasks effectively.

The problem at present with the two devices listed above that are being released with stock Android, is the fact they are not marketed well enough. I wouldn't mind betting the average consumer doesn't know they exist. Basing this on the UK as its my only reference, but they are not advertised on TV and most of the major retailers push the standard models and don't give the option. The only places I've seen them discussed is the techy sites that gadget minded enthusiasts visit. Its a shame IMO. If I wanted to go out tomorrow and buy the S4 on stock Android with a contract, I'd most likely have to buy the handset outright and then buy a sim only contract to go with it. It cuts down you bargaining power too as you can barter the prices of contracts down, but sim only versions are usually fixed. It would possibly be a more expensive way of owning the phone. I'm sure you can buy a standard S4 and convert it to stock, but that can affect your warranty and personally I'm not into the hassle of doing it.

Hopefully we'll see stock becoming more popular on flagship models in future. The question is, would Samsung and HTC prefer the wider audience to buy their custom interface though?

[CaptainRaiden]

The problem at present with the two devices listed above that are being released with stock Android, is the fact they are not marketed well enough. I wouldn't mind betting the average consumer doesn't know they exist. Basing this on the UK as its my only reference, but they are not advertised on TV and most of the major retailers push the standard models and don't give the option. The only places I've seen them discussed is the techy sites that gadget minded enthusiasts visit. Its a shame IMO.

I think a large portion of Android customers have always been the gadget minded enthusiasts you speak of. Besides, lack of advertisements is also one factor that helps them keep the handset cost down. This was especially true in the case of the Nexus 4. Almost next to no advertisements whatsoever, and they still sold out. But yeah, the one thing that always hurt Android flagships is lack of good advertising, which is exactly where Apple is ace.

If I wanted to go out tomorrow and buy the S4 on stock Android with a contract, I'd most likely have to buy the handset outright and then buy a sim only contract to go with it. It cuts down you bargaining power too as you can barter the prices of contracts down, but sim only versions are usually fixed.

I will let you in on a secret, although I'm sure you know this already. My ex told me the inner workings of the sales department at 3, and I'm sure the same works for Vodafone and Orange too. They already have a crazy markup on top of the set basic contract rate. If the customer buys it at the advertised rate, then a huge payday for them, but if not, they will easily reduce the handset cost or the monthly rental to an acceptable limit during the haggling as long as the customer thinks they are winning and getting a bargain, but as it reaches close to their acceptable set marker, they will simply refuse to go down any further, no matter how much you haggle. In fact, even if they give you the handset for free at a 25 euro monthly contract, they're still making loads of money off of you. Anything on top of that is a bonus for them. It's never a loss for them, always a win. The salesperson who sweet talks you into anything over the set rate then gets a bonus. The more you pay, the higher their bonus.

Mind you, the existing customer who gets haggling privileges has to have some prerequisites fulfilled. All their data is in the CRM module, and it depends on if you were on a higher contract and if you've been a good payer, not missing a single payment before. If the company thinks they've already made enough money off of you, they don't mind giving you a nice little discount.

Like I said, I'm sure you knew this already, but this is how these corporate SOBs operate. But at least you have the luxury of haggling in the US and UK. Most of the other places there's usually a monopoly, and they just charge absurd rates for similar contracts.

Hopefully we'll see stock becoming more popular on flagship models in future. The question is, would Samsung and HTC prefer the wider audience to buy their custom interface though?

I think if more customers buy and prefer the stock version, then it's less hassle for them. They don't have to bother with developing UIs anymore. Most probably the stock Android S4 and One are tests. And depending on their success, we might see further devices going the stock route in the future.

[henners88]

I think a large portion of Android customers have always been the gadget minded enthusiasts you speak of. Besides, lack of advertisements is also one factor that helps them keep the handset cost down. This was especially true in the case of the Nexus 4. Almost next to no advertisements whatsoever, and they still sold out. But yeah, the one thing that always hurt Android flagships is lack of good advertising, which is exactly where Apple is ace.

It might well be a large proportion but its certainly not the majority of consumers in the UK. You'll find most of the larger retailers push the sub £100 handsets here as they often offer the better contract deals too. Cheaper handset, more minutes, texts and data. The flagship handsets also sell well here and apparently the best in Europe. I know quite a few people who own top end Android devices but don't get anywhere near as involved with the software as you guys here. I don't know if I could agree enthusiasts take up a larger percentage or not. We can only really base this sort of thing on personal experience and it'll be different from person to person.

I can offer an explanation as to why the Nexus 4 sold out and so quickly. Again its a UK reference, and sold out in a day here. The reason being they initially only shipped 250,000 units. That is not a huge amount really. The demand grew once they sold out and delayed shipping on batch 2 meant they then reached a million sales by the second release. I agree it was impressive for a model that was badly advertised and gained momentum via viral advertising mainly. I think Nexus were as guilty as previous manufacturers when it came to hyping sales figures and marketing the fact they sold out. Still it was a great handset for a very cheap price.

I will let you in on a secret, although I'm sure you know this already. My ex told me the inner workings of the sales department at 3, and I'm sure the same works for Vodafone and Orange too. They already have a crazy markup on top of the set basic contract rate. If the customer buys it at the advertised rate, then a huge payday for them, but if not, they will easily reduce the handset cost or the monthly rental to an acceptable limit during the haggling as long as the customer thinks they are winning and getting a bargain, but as it reaches close to their acceptable set marker, they will simply refuse to go down any further, no matter how much you haggle. In fact, even if they give you the handset for free at a 25 euro monthly contract, they're still making loads of money off of you. Anything on top of that is a bonus for them. It's never a loss for them, always a win. The salesperson who sweet talks you into anything over the set rate then gets a bonus. The more you pay, the higher their bonus.

Mind you, the existing customer who gets haggling privileges has to have some prerequisites fulfilled. All their data is in the CRM module, and it depends on if you were on a higher contract and if you've been a good payer, not missing a single payment before. If the company thinks they've already made enough money off of you, they don't mind giving you a nice little discount.

Like I said, I'm sure you knew this already, but this is how these corporate SOBs operate. But at least you have the luxury of haggling in the US and UK. Most of the other places there's usually a monopoly, and they just charge absurd rates for similar contracts.

Yeah I was aware of that. A friend of mine was quite high up in finance at the Vodafone head-quarters in Banbury until a few years ago and he divulged many of the inner workings to me. I know when I negotiate a contract that there is a threshold they are willing to drop to and still make a profit. You have the luxury here of being able to tell salespeople you will try elsewhere and it usually forces them to 'see what they can do' lol. Also here the mobile companies have points systems to use if you remain a customer for your next upgrade etc. I always have the mindset where I decide what handset I want, the price I want to pay, and then I find several sales departments to haggle amongst. The closest to the price gets my money. You can upgrade here as you're aware through quite a few outlets and usually its cheaper to do that than upgrade directly through the carrier, in my case O2. I'm aware though I walk away with the price I want to pay, but know full well they have still made a profit. If no party is happy, everybody loses.

[Jag_Warrior]

On mobile devices, 99.9% of my concern is about performance and security. I don't care whether I have the newest device in my hand (my cellphone is over 10 years old) or whether I can root it, jailbreak it or watch the icons dance around the screen while they sing my name. If it's (intentionally or unintentionally) leaking my personal, financial and/or business data out to some kid in a basement in Russia or China, then to me, that's kind of a problem. But the mileage of others may vary. Some geniuses will post on their MyFace and SpaceBook pages when they're going to be out of town on vacation for two weeks - along with pictures of their house and even the address. IMO, stupid people do not deserve a break. But those who are innocently being exploited do deserve a break... and protection from these data mining thieves (FaceBook), and the ones who enable it (Google and any others). So here is yet another reason why I have no use for FaceBook or the Android OS:

Of particular note, Mobile Insight automatically flagged the *Facebook* application for *Android* because it leaked the device phone number. The first time you launch the Facebook application, even before logging in, your phone number will be sent over the Internet to Facebook servers. You do not need to provide your phone number, log in, initiate a specific action, or even need a Facebook account for this to happen.

We reached out to Facebook who investigated the issue and will provide a fix in their next Facebook for Android release. They stated they did not use or process the phone numbers and have deleted them from their servers. /said with an entirely straight face/

Purely by accident, so says the minions of Marky Mark Suckerberg. Riiight. And the check is in the mail, I don't know who ate the last slice of cherry pie and of course I'll love you in the morning.

[BleAivano]

@jag, the difference between Android and Ios is that on Android when you install an app via Google Play, it lets
you review what phone features the app will access so that users are made aware of it.

Regarding security leaks, I think all systems have security leaks but that on Android they are more widely known
since Android is open source and users can take precautionary action.

While on Ios you might have the same security leaks but users might not know about it and thus becomes more vulnerable.