Mobile phones & tablets thread

[henners88]

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple!

I have been accused here of being biased towards Apple for at least 2 years that I can remember. Long before I even owned an Apple product! Just because I liked the way iOS is laid out and the functionality I found was easier to use. I was positive about certain aspects of the iPhone and that was enough to label me. I loved the 'HTC Incredible S' (and the other 3 android handsets before that) I owned but ironically I was never labelled as an Android Fan simply because I shared similar opinions. For you Airshifter its more comical as you've admitted many times to not owning an iPhone, but because you are not using this thread to bash it, you get the label too. Perhaps we are older or something? That's my guess. Its all too easy to try and turn a discussion into sides.

I'm in the position now where I own an iPhone and use iOS daily and have done since October last year, so can address criticisms made here that I either don't agree with or perhaps agree with. For my needs it works and well. I didn't have a problem with the pricing of the iPhone because here in the UK the price was the same as the latest Samsung flagship phone of the time. I don't know how its priced elsewhere in the world but here the iPhone is in line. When I was ready to upgrade I very nearly bought the S3 as was discussed earlier in this thread. They were the same price on upgrade. I waited for the iPhone 5 to be released so I could judge them side by side and I chose the iPhone on two things. I preferred the interface of the OS for its simplicity and I preferred the handset because it was smaller than the Samsung. Two of my major needs addressed. My needs may well change in October 2014 when I am able to upgrade and perhaps by then I will be labelled as an Android fan instead. You have to love the internet. I'm not brand loyal in any sense of the word. If I like something I buy it regardless of what is written on it and generally if I can afford it. Same with anything.

Another amusing fact from this thread I wish to bring up. In the last 4 months I have recommended the Sony Xperia Z, Samsung S3 and S4 to people I know who have asked my advice on new phones. Of course I've mentioned the iPhone as a consideration but having discussed these peoples needs in a more mature level than could ever be had on this thread, it was clear their needs were very different to mine. Not everybody chooses to own the same phone and life would be pretty boring if they did. We can only share our opinions and experiences and make recommendations based on that. If I were biased, I wouldn't be in the business of doing such things and to be honest I think I have been pretty open here without resorting to bashing devices I have not used for any period of time. I don't feel I should be forced to pick sides just because a few guys on a forum feel its easier to do. I can't see the point in limiting my future purchases by slating a company who really doesn't have any impact on my life as a whole. Its counter-productive IMO. Anyway I'll join you here airshifter by having a bit of a laugh about all this and move on. Cheers

[CaptainRaiden]

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple!

We are going to force them into an OS that works!

No, no, not biased at all!

And carrying a device doesn't automatically make you unbiased. There have been a lot of negative things said about Apple, Android and WP in this thread. Where have you defended the other two? But Apple, Apple is a different story.

As for the rest of the post, not worth the waste of time other than to mention I really don't care what you buy, nor do I care if you want to spend 500 post trying to convince others that they should buy the same. But the fact is that anyone that wants can express an opinion, and that includes people that prefer the Apple products.

I could repeat it a thousand times, but if you're really that slow, then you're not going to get it. My problem has always been Apple's pricing. Never even told anybody not to express their opinions. In fact whenever someone posted that they bought an iPhone in this thread, I have never mocked their choice or device. Others have done so. I either congratulated or stayed away. And you can quote me on this.

The bone to pick always had been with company's exorbitant prices, not the consumer. The consumer can buy whatever they like. You lot have been trying to justify those prices saying Apple is a "luxury" brand for the last two years. This is no longer true. Apple has had to bow to market pressure, because guess what, the consumer has finally decided with their wallets. And not just millions of consumers, but phone review websites have long been criticizing Apple's pricing. The result? 1. Budget iPhone offering. 2. What was once a $200 difference on Amazon between the two major flagship devices from Apple and Samsung, is now only $50. And if the trend continues, I expect it to go even lower.

You can go back a page and see which posts actually led us here. And if you don't wanna read "negative" opinions on a brand you love? Exercise your right to freedom and add me to your ignore list. Much smoother day for you I promise!

[henners88]

Apple's rumoured budget iPhone is still going to be a £400 device if you believe TechRadars prediction. They are making it more affordable, but its not going to be Nexus 4 level pricing. I think Apple are still maintaining their price range whilst satisfying an element of the market. The spy shots of the iPhone 5S show it looks very similar to the iPhone 5 and will bring an incremental update regarding internal hardware and my guess is this will be their next release. I've intrigued by the suggestions Apple have been forced down this route because of 'consumers have decided with their wallets'. Apple and Samsung's stock dipped last month due to a slow down in sales, but surely that is the market as a whole rather than one brand? Both companies have seen a rise in demand, just not the same peak they experienced in the first quarter. The phone market always goes through periods like this because people are keeping phones for longer these days on 24 month contracts.

Apple unlike their competitors release less hardware, so deal with demand over the course of a 10 month period approx. Samsung have released several models this year alone, therefore comparing the two flagship models is difficult. I don't think either company is struggling in terms of sales to be honest. I think Apple has undergone a management restructure and perhaps their philosophies have changed in terms of how they approach the market. You can't stick to the same business model forever. There is no shame in reaching out to consumers and offering a little more, and after all Apple are still the most profitable company coming out of all this. All very positive for the big players.

[CaptainRaiden]

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.

As for the iPhone's price drop, it is now priced much closer to other flagships, which is fine by me. And yes, I think it is because consumers have spoken with their wallets. The sale of Android flagships has shot up quite considerably. At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.

For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.

[henners88]

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.

The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.

At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.

I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.

For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.

Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

[Mark]

People also said there's no way they'd ever make a cut price iPad Mini either - and yet I have one.

The 'cut price' iPhone will be a good thing IMO, Apple can no longer rely on the premium market as the competition there is fierce, better to use the guts of an iPhone 4 to make an iPhone model which everyone can own.

My wife is looking to upgrade her 3GS, I've suggested she wait until the Apple announcement in the Autumn to see if this cut price iPhone comes along.

The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months

That's the same price as it's always been.

[CaptainRaiden]

The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.

Of course Apple wouldn't call it a budget or a cheap iPhone. I'm sure their marketing department will come up with something clever enough to appeal to the common man.

I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

I agree about the recent slew of devices from Samsung. There's too much clutter, yes, and I personally don't agree with it, but another way of looking at it is also that they are putting devices out there probably to suit every need, just because they can. And the fact that they're still finding buyers means there is a market out there. IMO though there should have been only two variants of the S4, the normal one and the rugged, waterproof one. Adding the mini and then the Galaxy camera is sort of overkill, but surprisingly they have tapped into a subset of consumers that desire those!

I mean who the heck wants to buy the new 6.4 inch Xperia Z?? Not me! But I have already heard people considering it.

Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.

I am aware of that, as it is quite obvious. I was merely correlating Android's boost in sales directly with my immediate group of acquaintances, because I personally haven't seen such a major and sudden jump in my immediate vicinity, like ever. That all happened in the past 6 months. A bunch of attractive contracts, and they just slurped it up. The sucky thing is that me with a Galaxy S3 is the one with the oldest model now.

Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.

For example, where I am right now, to get an iPhone 5 32 GB, you pay €294 upfront, and €65 per month for two years. - https://www.vodafone.ro/shop/telefoa...e-5-32gb-negru (Chrome should translate the page)

And even then you don't get quite the contract you get in the UK - Apple iPhone 5 32GB black - Buy Apple iPhone deals on a Vodafone UK | overview

I believe UK providers some will even give you the handset for free? Of course, contracts in other countries will get better over time, but right now for someone outside the UK and US, it makes sense to buy a sim-free handset. Another big perk is that they are not locked by the network, and if you are someone that wants to tinker around with OS reinstall, especially with Android, it's easier and you're not breaking any law.

The iPhone 5 is only about £40 or £50 pounds extra over the S4 on Amazon, whereas the iPhone 4S was at one point a full £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3. The gap between the flagships has reduced by over £100, so yes, things have changed for the better, as the market has become exciting and opened up more options for the consumer.

[CaptainRaiden]

That's the same price as it's always been.

Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone...words=iPhone+5

The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.

[henners88]

That's the same price as it's always been.

That's what I thought.
iPhone 5 - Buy new iPhone 5 SIM Free or Pay as you go - Apple Store (UK)
I have a feeling this price drop is from selected third party retailers rather than Apple directly.

That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.

I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.
The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.

Apple haven't dropped their prices if you buy from them direct on their UK and US stores. The prices haven't dropped on pages like Phones4U, Dialaphone and Carphone Warehouse either when buying on contract. Perhaps the prices have dropped for sim free devices through third party agents, but I have to admit I don't try and keep up with pricing in that sector of the retail market. I didn't even realise Amazon sold the iPhone I have to admit, and am yet to meet anyone who has bought it outright, but agree its obviously feasible for some people. As you said, the iPhone can be had for free if you choose the right contract and are willing to pay a little more a month.

[CaptainRaiden]

I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

Glad the confusion has lessened somewhat. About a year or so ago, a sim free unlocked iPhone 4S was around £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3, and hence the outrage by consumers and review websites. If you buy it locked on contract however, you won't see much of a difference. Phone companies also make more money by selling Android flagships at around the same price, as they get them for cheaper.

Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

That is one HUGE advantage. And I know it first hand, because I did a short stint as a TL at tech support for 3 UK a couple of years ago. So, chances are that around 2004 if you were an angry 3 customer and wanted to talk to a supervisor, I would have been telling you to calm the F down over the phone. Not proud of that job, but I was in transition and needed some quick cash. Anyway, the girl I was dating at that time used to work in the customer retention department (female with a nice voice, go figure), and together with the sales department they had some CRAZY offers to give, but ONLY if it was difficult to retain an existing customer or acquire a new customer. In fact, with permission from their respective supervisors, they gave some crazy deals to lucky UK customers.

Try doing that in India or Romania, and you will be told to either get the contract at its set price or F*** off.