VW & Fiat in WRC

[Motorsportfun]

ONE ? ^^;

I've read on Motosprint weekly something like this, so yes.

[f-cup]

The teams are 10 and there are 2 drivers for each team and that's what I meant (and that's what we all want in WRC - more factory cars and more top drivers).

I think that the point was that there really are only 5 manu teams in F1. The rest are just the same as Munchi's, Stobart etc. in WRC.

But anyway, there is a certain point in having only limited number of teams in WRC. You have all seen what happens to tems that are not competive. They quit. If we could have four manu teams, and they all have their junior teams as Ford and Citroen have now, it would be well enough.

[alleskids]

They should not limiting the numbers of manufactueres, they must limite the rules and keep them steady for many years and keep the costs low for the drivers and teams Make the cars availalble (including all the engineer stuff) and pricealble for everyone. Nobody wants to spend millions on a limited engineerd WRCar or be manipulated by the only 2 real teambosses.

Mercedes is providing/selling the engines to Brawn , but does not tell them to stay behind their 2 own drivers. So why should Ford keep their paying drivers on a leash? F1 has client teams beating factory teams.

[Helstar]

I think that the point was that there really are only 5 manu teams in F1. The rest are just the same as Munchi's, Stobart etc. in WRC.

But anyway, there is a certain point in having only limited number of teams in WRC. You have all seen what happens to tems that are not competive. They quit. If we could have four manu teams, and they all have their junior teams as Ford and Citroen have now, it would be well enough.

The more teams the more possibility to have competitive cars ... in 2008 we had 4 work teams but 2 failed to be competitive and retired, and we are stuck in 2 teams only now. If we'd have (example) 7 teams, and 3 are not competitive, we would have 4 in the next year !

I've read on Motosprint weekly something like this, so yes.

So it's not 10-times smallest budget, but 110-times !

[Motorsportfun]

So it's not 10-times smallest budget, but 110-times !

lol, sorry

[seb_sh]

The comparison to Formula 1 is not entirely correct. Indeed there are only 5 (next year 4) street car maker teams in Formula 1. Next year there will still be 5 engine suppliers as Cosworth is returning as supplier to the new teams.

However there are (usually) 10 or more independent manufacturers in Formula 1 regardless of engine suppliers (except for Red Bull/Torro Rosso atm). Brawn GP is not like Stobart even if they get engines from Mercedes. They get engines, that's it, they have to design, build, improve their own car, Mercedes has no say in what drivers Brawn hires or cannot tell them to move over in races just because they supply engines and the same goes for all the other teams (Williams with Toyota, Red Bull with Renault etc).

The difference is that F1 teams such as Williams or Force India do not need to sell cars, they exist in order to race in F1 so except for cases where they go bankrupt or whatever they won't leave even if they are last because there is nowhere to go for them.

Back to WRC now, it has for a long time been dependent on official or semi-official Manufacturer (ie road car maker) involvement. I think you need at least 4 manufacturers not at most as that article says. Not only because there is more variety and possibly more competition but also if you loose one you don't loose 25% of your top competitors.

As for Superbike thats a very good example of something done right. There are currently 7 bike makers involved (although only 3 are consistently fighting at the top with Aprillia recently getting into the scrap) and there is talks of KTM joining as well. Also, not only are they running works teams they some also give bikes to customer teams. They can do this because the cost is very low and the bikes are modified street bikes so when you think about cost/return it is very good even if you don't win.

[MJW]

Could this be the rumoured Scirocco? - I think VW are keen on Turbo engines, but the 1.4 litre is the main one for VAG group now as that is what is in the Audi A3. Talking of Audi there was some crazy whispers about Petter and Audi A3 last week. I didnt beleive it then and I still dont, - cant see Audi coming back somehow.

[macksrallye]

Also, not only are they running works teams they some also give bikes to customer teams. They can do this because the cost is very low and the bikes are modified street bikes so when you think about cost/return it is very good even if you don't win.

And that ^ is why Group A was so successful, they were modified versions of cars that the company's produced day-in, day-out. WRCars on the other hand are much more like F1, the cars are designed with one purpose in mind, racing, so they (Citroensport & M-Sport) design the cars from the ground up just as an F1 team would.

I'm not saying go back to Group A but if we want a cost effective & competative championship the FIA needs to look that direction, if they don't care about the costs & want out & out excitment the WRCar is what they should be looking at (although the current cars reward point & shoot driving to much, we need some noise & sideways style back in the sport).

[AndyRAC]

Could this be the rumoured Scirocco? - I think VW are keen on Turbo engines, but the 1.4 litre is the main one for VAG group now as that is what is in the Audi A3. Talking of Audi there was some crazy whispers about Petter and Audi A3 last week. I didnt beleive it then and I still dont, - cant see Audi coming back somehow.

I can't either, VW Group has specific sports for each marque;

Audi - Sportscars
VW - Dakar
Seat - Touring Cars
Skoda - Rallying

However, VW expressed an interest in WRC with a TDI Scirocco, but the car was too wide, and wouldn't be given a dispensation. When the VAGroup come knocking, you don't knock them back. Big mistake I think.

[Gard]

I can't either, VW Group has specific sports for each marque;

Audi - Sportscars
VW - Dakar
Seat - Touring Cars
Skoda - Rallying

However, VW expressed an interest in WRC with a TDI Scirocco, but the car was too wide, and wouldn't be given a dispensation. When the VAGroup come knocking, you don't knock them back. Big mistake I think.

They run VW Scirocco in Swedish Touring Cars