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Thread: JPM
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23rd July 2009, 13:12 #11
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Originally Posted by Tazio
mac 'fired" him after they learned that he had done a deal for driving nascar
and what is forgotten, is that kimi never dominated JPM as a team mate, and JPM dominanted RS, although after JPM ended up in ronnie d's doghouse, he was not having some good results compared to kimi the last few races, suspicion being that JPM was headed for greener pastures where the pay was better and the racing more fun....Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:
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23rd July 2009, 13:59 #12
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Originally Posted by markabilly
There is another thread where a certain member who I believe once had his image
chiseled out of White Carrera Marble in the Vatican Rotunda,
who argues that Mike had virtually no real competition between Senna, and Alonso,
and only showed up to receive his trophy’s while competing against these really weak performers
like Kimi JPM, DC, Ralf, Mika, Jacques, and others. Every one of these guys in their prime were excellent racers,
yet only two secured a WDC in full careers while Mike collected a paltry seven.May the forza be with you
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23rd July 2009, 15:07 #13
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Originally Posted by markabilly
Andretti won WDC in the dominant car cf. JPM/Williams were up against Ferrari/Schumi in 2003 and was up against Kimi & Alonso in 2005.
Dunno what it was like in Andretti's or Gurney's days but DEI Ganassi are hardly a team that can win week in week out.
Originally Posted by markabillyThe world according to Taki Inoue: https://mobile.twitter.com/takiinoue/st ... 7249326080
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23rd July 2009, 18:03 #14
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Face it wedge, someone like JPM should not be mentioned in the same breath as Clark, Gurney and Andretti
Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:
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23rd July 2009, 20:52 #15
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Originally Posted by markabilly
Clark, instead, raced in rally events and hill climbs and was of course British Touring Car champion in 1964. Along with F1, Indycars, Le Mans...
So equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall.
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23rd July 2009, 23:06 #16
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Originally Posted by markabillyThe world according to Taki Inoue: https://mobile.twitter.com/takiinoue/st ... 7249326080
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24th July 2009, 08:12 #17
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Anyone that wins more than one F1 race qualifies for mention anywhere. F1 is that tough!! However back to JPM. One of the problems with NASCAR is that you can't horse the car to the front. You either have the car or you don't - On road courses in NASCAR a driver has a chance to make up for the car but even that is getting tougher cause the young ones are now paying more attention. True the seats are far more comfortable in NASCAR so you don't have to live at the gym but JPM has it and has proven it!!
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24th July 2009, 10:30 #18
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Originally Posted by Colin_Harvey
No way was Clark "close to equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall", Nope, while I think Clark and Stewart were the very last of the truly great pure driving talents in F1 to consistently demonstrate those skills, when it comes to who the better driver was in different forms of racing, indeed even in the different forms of f1, over the time period from 1967 to 1990, there is no other driver close.
dirt tracking and the big ovals are completely different and Clark never proved himself in either. Sad though because in terms of sheer speed, it is not clear who was the faster driver, as in 1965 andretti was a rookie, but in 1966 and 1967 in the two later races where Andretti and clark raced together, Andretti took pole in a "brawner" over Clark and others.
One can say, in theory and opinion, Clark this or that, but as to actually demonstrating it on a track, only Andretti is there in a class all by himself. Even in the different forms of f1 as it advanced for some 14 years (yep 14 years) for andretti, who raced f1 as though it were merely a second, lesser series than his primary interests which was racing in the usa........
Even Colin Chapman would say that Andretti had very special skills over any other driver who drove for him, when it came to setting up a car whereas Clark would just drive the car. Probably more than anyone else, he turned the very back of the pack Lotus when he started with the team in 1976 in to a car that would lap the entire field by the last race of the season--and the car that dominated in 1977 and 1978, did so thanks to his skills, in a time before the sheer dominance of aero and data acquisition and engineers with wind tunnels......
indeed, perhaps he better than anyone else, was in the position to judge the older forms of non-wing competition with the later forms...and he made it clear that the requirements of driving skill and feel for the car were rapidly decreasing into what he referred to go karts requiring toggle switch driving or point and squirt, with the car and engineering becoming overall dominant.
I heard him say in 1981 or so in a tv interview, during his year driving the alfa, when asked about the "supreme skills" to race f1, he said that it required far more skill and talent to race competitively at Indy in 1967 than to race f1 in 1981......he should know better than any
JPM is a non qualifier for consideration in the class of Clark, Gurney or Andretti.....Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:
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24th July 2009, 11:59 #19
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Originally Posted by markabilly
Had Clark been born in the USA then undoubtedly he would've digged the oval racing scene and had Andretti family emigrated to England he probably would've done rallying and touring cars.
Originally Posted by markabilly
Originally Posted by markabillyThe world according to Taki Inoue: https://mobile.twitter.com/takiinoue/st ... 7249326080
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24th July 2009, 13:45 #20
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Originally Posted by wedge
a few races does not a champion make
as to limited experience, jPM has spent well over three years running almost every weekend in Nascar races........and he usually manages to run at times in the top ten....but most Nascar drivers can say the same thing, thanks to pit stops and such.
finishes is a whole different matter
example: 2007 51 starts, one win on a road course...29th place finish in points
now running the earnhardt ganassi team, not a slouch team at all
just like when he ran cart, he was with a team where the driver should be winning, except he is not
andretti ran only a few races in nascar, had only one victory, the Daytona 500Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:
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