Senna...a sportsman ?

Ayrton Senna was a sportsman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFjlgTgrw-4

No he wasn't.

[EuroTroll]

Yeah, now you may have some valid opinions Tamburello (even though, reading the F1 forum, I'd say the "rate of success" is about 1 in 100 ), but don't you think it's a bit crass to post negative opinions on Senna with a user-name like yours?

I mean, I wouldn't go on a Villeneuve remembrance thread as, say, Terlamenbocht and say he was crap..

[BDunnell]

I think it is valid to post negative opinions of someone in these circumstances. When one remembers Senna, most will also remember the significant controversies in which he was involved, and which were arguably just as big a part of his 'make-up' as a driver as were the positive aspects.

Just because he's been dead 15 years doesn't change the fact that, talented though he undoubtedly was, he was also unsporting and showed a total disregard for the safety of his competitors.

You may wish to remember a less real version of the man, but it doesn't change the fact that he was not an untouchable saint.

[elis]

Tamburello, NO driver is a saint & it's accepted that that included Ayrton on occasion, but this really isn't the place to be scraping up the select 'off' moments in an otherwise stella career. Sure he was fallable, just like EVERY other driver out there.

I had the fortune to meet Ayrton & spend a few moments with him. It was after a test session at Silverstone when the paddock was empty bar teams packing up. Ayrton was exceptionally engaging, if a little enigmatic.. there was a humbleness about him that seldom was seen infront of the tv screens.

This thread seems to be a place for reflecting on the loss, I'm assuming from your comments so far that you weren't a fan.. well others are, so please in this thread have a modicum of respect for them & indeed for the memory of Ayrton... in other words.. if all you're going to do is be disrespectul.. then stfu.

[EuroTroll]

I think it is valid to post negative opinions of someone in these circumstances. When one remembers Senna, most will also remember the significant controversies in which he was involved, and which were arguably just as big a part of his 'make-up' as a driver as were the positive aspects.

That is true, and I'm not in any way trying to deny that! There were many instances where Senna's actions were clearly in the wrong. The worst of these, in my opinion, was the Portuguese GP of 1988, where Senna almost pushed Prost to the pit wall, while Prost was trying to pass him on the main straight (and did, eventually).

The man was complicated. Not a saint, by any means!

What really ticks me off, though, is blatant bashing, which I think a certain person has clearly been quilty of in this thread.

[BDunnell]

Tamburello, NO driver is a saint & it's accepted that that included Ayrton on occasion, but this really isn't the place to be scraping up the select 'off' moments in an otherwise stella career. Sure he was fallable, just like EVERY other driver out there.

I had the fortune to meet Ayrton & spend a few moments with him. It was after a test session at Silverstone when the paddock was empty bar teams packing up. Ayrton was exceptionally engaging, if a little enigmatic.. there was a humbleness about him that seldom was seen infront of the tv screens.

This thread seems to be a place for reflecting on the loss, I'm assuming from your comments so far that you weren't a fan.. well others are, so please in this thread have a modicum of respect for them & indeed for the memory of Ayrton... in other words.. if all you're going to do is be disrespectul.. then stfu.

But when some people remember Senna, they don't just remember the good things about him. As I said above, for me an intrinsic part of Senna's career were the numerous occasions on which he acted in an unacceptable manner, and I see no point in glossing over them.

I think it's a shame that being honest - no more - about the dead is now deemed somehow disrespectful or unreasonable.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think it's a shame that being honest - no more - about the dead is now deemed somehow disrespectful or unreasonable.

I agree, but it is a shame to see brazen insults being used.

[EuroTroll]

But when some people remember Senna, they don't just remember the good things about him. As I said above, for me an intrinsic part of Senna's career were the numerous occasions on which he acted in an unacceptable manner, and I see no point in glossing over them.

I think it's a shame that being honest - no more - about the dead is now deemed somehow disrespectful or unreasonable.

Well, the phrase "do not speak ill of the dead" is probably as old as mankind. If anything, nowadays it's less followed than at any other time in human history.

But that's hardly the point, is it.

"An intrinsic part of Senna's career were the numerous occasions on which he acted in an unacceptable manner," you say. That's a correct statement, in my opinion (even though I will always be a great fan of the man). But focussing solely on the bad is just as wrong as stating the man was an infallible hero, I think. No, in fact it's probably worse!

----

Anyway, I hope this thread can continue in a more pleasant manner.

[tintop]

I think it is valid to post negative opinions of someone in these circumstances. When one remembers Senna, most will also remember the significant controversies in which he was involved, and which were arguably just as big a part of his 'make-up' as a driver as were the positive aspects.

What a ridiculous statement, clearly the positives outweighed the negatives by a large margin, or we wouldn't be memorializing him would we? There is plenty of space dedicated to rating former racers pro and con, I'd think that some of you would be able to tell the difference between that and a memorial thread on the anniversary of his violent death.

What a great talent, what a joy to watch!