NASCAR & the Big 3

[SportscarBruce]

Has any motor racing journalist taken an honest assessment of this topic based on the following points;

How much money in total has Detroit poured into NASCAR racing over the past 10 years at the team, track promotion, and sanctioning body levels (I would love to see this number)?

What has Detroit received in return far as tangible sales results, car development, and stature?

In this era of Detroit auto manufacturing on its deathbead while depending upon federal bailout and loan assistance, what exactly legitimizes the continued expenditure of marketing funds to the tune of millions of dollars into NASCAR by the Big 3?

Has any reporter in the employ of a major media organization dared to take this sacred cow by the horns?

[wbcobrar]

First of all , Ford has not recieved the string attached bail out money. As such they should be above this stupid game that power hungry socialists love to play . That game is "I gave you money ,therefore I get to decide how you spend it ". That "sacred cow" you refer to is called private buisness spending money how they see fit . The only ones Ford needs to answer to is their board , and their shareholders . As for Chevy an Dodge , I personally believe they are in the same boat , but they invited the vampire(the government) into their house , and as such are in the grey area where every idiot who lives in this country gets to pretend to know how to be the CEO of a major corperation . If you feel the need to look for millstones around the necks of the big 3 , look first at the bloated union contracts .

[SportscarBruce]

*kneejerk* ^

You talk about socialist agendas, OTOH when I see propaganda guised as reporting the news and issues that confront us that irks me.
This isn't about unions. Try answering the questions.

[Alexamateo]

Factories have been supporting racing ever since Henry Ford hired Barney Oldfield to pilot the "999". How much have the recieved back as far as tangible sales results, car development, and stature? I don't know, They must recieve some sort of ROI, otherwise there wouldn't be a more than 100 year history of their support.

Companies have to advertise and market, even companies in the midst of a bankruptcy, or in this case recieving government assistance, and yes we now have the right to question their participation, since they (at least GM and Chrysler) are now essentially in receivership.

As far as what was spent in the past 10 years, that is irrelevant. They weren't receiving assistance at that time. If there have been any articles written pertaining to this issue, I am unaware of it.

[SportscarBruce]

Factories have been supporting racing ever since Henry Ford hired Barney Oldfield to pilot the "999". How much have the recieved back as far as tangible sales results, car development, and stature? I don't know, They must recieve some sort of ROI, otherwise there wouldn't be a more than 100 year history of their support.

You are lumping in NASCAR's recent history with the entire history of the sport. As a student of racing history I find that comparison laughable. Advocating an absolute, across the board withdrawl of spending marketing dollars on racing is not what this inquiry is about. In fact, in the event (however unlikely) that NASCAR's common template/misnamed Car of Tommorow philosophy was replaced by another, one that paid homage to that history you eluded to, one with tangible connections to the maker's product, then the questions would not be asked.
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/e-news/...age41877_a.jpg

Truth of the matter is the identically bodied, gasoline fueled, analog ignitioned, carbureted, old-tech suspensioned COT has no connection to anything the Big 3 has to offer. This is 1960's technology the Big 3 are spending on in pursuit of public recognition and showroom sales. In addition, the sameness that the sanctioning body is so eager to utilize in order to keep the racing close absolutely ruins the brand to brand differentiation which is a vital element in motorsport-driven marketing.

At this point the entire arguement for continuing the Big 3's relationship with NASCAR strikes me as an effort to protect an industry that neither gives back to the Big 3 nor appreciates its decades-long investment history. At its core this is a leach on the back of the auto industry that it no longer can, or should, support.

Companies have to advertise and market, even companies in the midst of a bankruptcy, or in this case recieving government assistance, and yes we now have the right to question their participation, since they (at least GM and Chrysler) are now essentially in receivership.

Not only as a racing fan, but as a taxpayer, I absolutely have the right.

[SportscarBruce]

For review, stock cars as effective marketing vehicles for manufacturers
1972
http://www.mopardealer.com/_borders/...bbins_1972.jpg
2008
http://www.sporttours.com.au/images/bathurst4.jpg

Ineffective;
http://phoenix.fanster.com/victoryla.../11/nascar.jpg

[wbcobrar]

I completly agree that the questions we ask , and the questions we dont want asked are the *kneejerk* responses that shine a light on our perspective. There are those among us who believe large corperations (the big 3,for example) are causing all the problems in the world today. The thrust of this thread seems to imply that the automakers have waisted large sums of money in NASCAR , and other forms of motorsport and must be maid to account for why they think this is justafied . Leaving Ford out of this(since as I noted earlyer , they have not recieved " bail out $" )the remaining big 2 could show the huge advertising plus . A quick Google search showed that the first 13 races averaged over 6 million viewers per race , with a high of 10.2 mill watching Datona , and a low of 3.74 mill for the All star race . Thats a lot of people seeing a representative of the product compete at high level . Don't you think that some of those millions may be motavated to bye based in part by fan devotion and brand loyalty, I know a few that do ! As far as technical innovations , I'm not an expert but I'd guess there is some informaton gleened in racing that flows back to the company,probably more so in sports car racing , but I'd be willing to bet NASCAR does some of that to. I've answered that asked question , but I still assert that they don't need to . Do we ask people who recieve food stamps to not dare spend money on beer ,or cigarettes,or big screen TV's? Obviously not . Maby there are some who think we should attach these strings to our "generosity". In fact there is a word for those people . SOCIALIST. Now as for the unions . Why is it that a car produced in america by Toyota costs $2000 less to make than a car made in america by the big 3? .... Must be NASCAR's fault,or greedy exeutives.

[RaceFanStan]

....... There are those among us who believe large corporations (the big 3,for example)
are causing all the problems in the world today .......

There are also "those among us" who believe the oil companies started the economic snowball rolling downhill ...
while others believe the banking giants ripped us off creating the stock market crash ...
let's not forget Bush's war against Sadam which strapped our country's economy ...
plus don't forget Bush's greedy friends ripping-off the taxpayers in the "reconstruction" of Iraq ...
many factors contributed to the economic woes we are suffering now ...
it boils down to greedy men seeking quick wealth & to hell with the USA economy.

I think the US automakers are caught-up in the economic downturn but they did NOT create it !

[SportscarBruce]

There are those among us who believe large corperations (the big 3,for example) are causing all the problems in the world today.

There are those who believe when a bank reaches a certain scale it becomes "too big to fail". Does that line of thinking exist among the formerly independent turned subservent racing media when it comes to NASCAR Inc? I believe so. In fact, in the realm of objectivity and fairness in reporting its the least objective of all media subjects.

A quick Google search showed that the first 13 races averaged over 6 million viewers per race , with a high of 10.2 mill watching Datona , and a low of 3.74 mill for the All star race . Thats a lot of people seeing a representative of the product compete at high level . Don't you think that some of those millions may be motavated to bye based in part by fan devotion and brand loyalty

And what percentage of these actually take from what they saw on the track Sunday and apply that to their vehicle purchasing decisions Monday? Brand loyalty went it comes to the grocery shelf is one thing, a big ticket item like a car is quite another.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have always thought NASCAR's benefits to advertisers were a little exagerrated but on Dave Moody's show on Sirius 128 today he pointed out that the one race deal Tony Stewart had in the Nationwide race for Hendrick had an interesting effect. Tony was promoting Rick Hendrick's used car website for offlease and used cars and this ONE appearence (albeit a win) in the car caused traffic on that site to jump 5000%. Now that maybe isn't translating into car sales, the numbers are not in for that but there is an effect.

As for the Big 3, Ford isn't on the bail out so they are out of the conversation. Should the US taxpayer be questioning GM and Chrysler? Yes.....but the last thing you as taxpayers should want is some pinhead that hasn't paid his taxes ( isn't that the story on half the guys Obama has tried to give cabinet positions to?) who doesn't know his lug nut from his fuel injector tell the car makers how to build cars and run their business? If you think the people running GM and Chrysler are idiots, you just WAIT until your US government starts mucking around in Detroit.

If I am a US taxpayer I am against the bailout all together. Nothing good will come of this. At some point, even the big 3 have to be prepared to succeed or fail. This bailout is bad news for how people in Detroit will be building cars. By the time the politicians get done, not only will NASCAR be losing two car makes, but neither GM nor Chrysler will be building anything anyone will want to buy....