No pitting for fuel next year? bye, bye most excitement

[chuck34]

Great. So for the first half of the race drivers will be wallowing around the track like beached whales, burning fuel and conserving tyres for the sprint to the finish...

That about sums it up.

[PitMarshal]

[URL]

Gerard Berger Tamburello Imola 1989 Crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd8q5HoBzOA&NR=1

I was wondering if anyone would bring that up. IIRC that incident was one of the catalysts for the pro-refuelling lobby. Whilst I personally don't like refuelling from a racing (or lack thereof) point of view, I'm not sure that carrying enough fuel for the whole race is a better option. Quite apart from the safety consideration, given that there are now only three or four different engines out there, all of which are running controlled ECU's I can't see there is much scope for gaining advantages on fuel economy. If fuelling does go, I'd like to see a freeing up of engine regs so that teams have the choice of a large hulking 3.5 V8 that will require a bigger fuel tank, or a smaller V6 that will have less power but more scope for fuel economy (and hence less weight).

[BobbyC]

I was wondering if anyone would bring that up. IIRC that incident was one of the catalysts for the pro-refuelling lobby. Whilst I personally don't like refuelling from a racing (or lack thereof) point of view, I'm not sure that carrying enough fuel for the whole race is a better option. Quite apart from the safety consideration, given that there are now only three or four different engines out there, all of which are running controlled ECU's I can't see there is much scope for gaining advantages on fuel economy. If fuelling does go, I'd like to see a freeing up of engine regs so that teams have the choice of a large hulking 3.5 V8 that will require a bigger fuel tank, or a smaller V6 that will have less power but more scope for fuel economy (and hence less weight).

Exactly. I remember reading 20 years ago an F1 car had a fuel tank about 225 litres.

It was the 1973 Indy 500 when cars ran with tanks over 300 litres of racing methanol, and a few incidents that year led to the cars having their tanks cut from 80 gallons to 40 (1974), 35 (1997), 30 (2003), and now 22 gallons (2007) of alcohol.

A 55-gallon fuel tank in an F1 car is three times the capacity of the fuel tank in a Sprint Cup race car (18 gallons).

But having 55 gallons in flames in a Berger-type incident is unsafe compared to 20 gallons.

[LeonBrooke]

... overtaking was generally easier than it is now.

I've watched a few old races and generally that's true... not just in F1 but in most series too - touring cars and sports cars. I think these days cars hold the racing line better and grip better - you're less likely to run a little wide and have someone go past you, and it's harder to go off-line to go past someone who's not making mistakes.

[ShiftingGears]

I've watched a few old races and generally that's true... not just in F1 but in most series too - touring cars and sports cars. I think these days cars hold the racing line better and grip better - you're less likely to run a little wide and have someone go past you, and it's harder to go off-line to go past someone who's not making mistakes.

It's because there's more reliance on aerodynamic grip now. And the tyres are softer, so they produce more marbles, and therefore reduce the number of racing lines. Not to mention smaller braking zones, higher cornering speeds (reducing braking zones). They can butcher F1 circuits past and present like Barcelona and Estoril but in the end it's down to the regulations to really allow good racing.

[gloomyDAY]

It's because there's more reliance on aerodynamic grip now. And the tyres are softer, so they produce more marbles, and therefore reduce the number of racing lines. Not to mention smaller braking zones, higher cornering speeds (reducing braking zones). They can butcher F1 circuits past and present like Barcelona and Estoril but in the end it's down to the regulations to really allow good racing.

Don't forget Hockenheim.

I think the re-fueling ban is a good idea to start the initial part of cost cutting. Yes, more time, money and energy will be spent to design a new chassis, but the net result is advantageous to F1. Zero fuel rig problems during the race (increase in safety), challenges drives to adjust their driving style, and forces teams to accommodate themselves to another set rules.

My hope is that the FIA will stabilize the rules and allow teams to construct a chassis that can be safe, consistent and race-ready for years to come.

[LeonBrooke]

It's because there's more reliance on aerodynamic grip now. And the tyres are softer, so they produce more marbles, and therefore reduce the number of racing lines. Not to mention smaller braking zones, higher cornering speeds (reducing braking zones). They can butcher F1 circuits past and present like Barcelona and Estoril but in the end it's down to the regulations to really allow good racing.

My point was that it's not just F1 - it's the same in touring cars and sports cars too - the fact that it's harder to overtake now than it once was. So, i think the current F1 rules are less to blame than we think.

[Tazio]

Excuse me if someone else already mentioned this!

I can't imagine what will happen when they have to run in consistant rain!
Cars sliding everywhere. many safety car laps culminating in a massive pile-up at the end of the race,
as cars will not have burned off their fuel by a long shot.
Hate it!

[Knock-on]

Exactly. I remember reading 20 years ago an F1 car had a fuel tank about 225 litres.

It was the 1973 Indy 500 when cars ran with tanks over 300 litres of racing methanol, and a few incidents that year led to the cars having their tanks cut from 80 gallons to 40 (1974), 35 (1997), 30 (2003), and now 22 gallons (2007) of alcohol.

A 55-gallon fuel tank in an F1 car is three times the capacity of the fuel tank in a Sprint Cup race car (18 gallons).

But having 55 gallons in flames in a Berger-type incident is unsafe compared to 20 gallons.

I think with the current engines, we could get away with a 30 Imperial Gallon tank for a 300km race.

I suggest that the FIA impose a ban on tanks larger than 150 liters and reduce it by 10 litres each year until down to 100 L