The Ferrari thread !

[henners88]

I'm sure Kimi is hoping Ferrari start to deliver when he arrives next year as a lot of the expectation is on him when the team itself has under-performed for the past 5 years. Kimi appears to be on top of his game at present but I couldn't say the same for Ferrari. I think they have more to prove than him at this point, and I'm sure they know that. Mia is very right in her observation of this thread too.

Given the right car the team Ferrari will have should give the grid fits. I sure hope they build the right car for these two, as I agree at this point Ferrari has more to prove than Kimi (or Fernando).

I'd be more impressed if they kicked Stefano to the curb and replaced him. But the fact that they are finally moving Massa out shows that they are at least still hungry. Hopefully with two strong drivers will come more quality finishes regardless of the car, and results should motivate the whole team. Only time will tell.

And I agree with Mia as well. As said above, I'm not going to bother with the haters any longer.

Again, trying to get this thread back on track I would say I agree with your observations. If Ferrari again produce a car that is second or third best next season, at least I feel with Kimi they have a driver who will push for more points than Massa has been able to. It might mean the constructors championship is more within reach if Fred and Kimi are as consistent as we are used to. Stefano is a nice guy or at least comes across that way. That doesn't mean he is necessarily the best guy to be leading Ferrari. Under Todt it was sterile, corporate, but the results came in. Stefano has opened Ferrari up to the media and to some extent the fans, but there is no denying the important aspect of running the team has suffered over the past 6 years. Ferrari need to regain that ruthless attitude and getting rid of Felipe at least shows they are recognising the problem rather than trying to remain loyal to a driver who often struggles.

[Parabolica]

2014 will be Domenicali's last year if nothing changes.

I'd go further, and say it could well be Luca's last too.

Whatever the reason for re-signing Kimi (best driver available/panic in case Fernando walked), both Domenicali and Luca have put themselves in the firing line.

The driver line-up leaves no excuse in that department.

The FIAT board will know that.

Failure will be seen as a management issue by them.

[Bagwan]

I'm sure Kimi is hoping Ferrari start to deliver when he arrives next year as a lot of the expectation is on him when the team itself has under-performed for the past 5 years. Kimi appears to be on top of his game at present but I couldn't say the same for Ferrari. I think they have more to prove than him at this point, and I'm sure they know that. Mia is very right in her observation of this thread too.

Given the right car the team Ferrari will have should give the grid fits. I sure hope they build the right car for these two, as I agree at this point Ferrari has more to prove than Kimi (or Fernando).

I'd be more impressed if they kicked Stefano to the curb and replaced him. But the fact that they are finally moving Massa out shows that they are at least still hungry. Hopefully with two strong drivers will come more quality finishes regardless of the car, and results should motivate the whole team. Only time will tell.

And I agree with Mia as well. As said above, I'm not going to bother with the haters any longer.

Again, trying to get this thread back on track I would say I agree with your observations. If Ferrari again produce a car that is second or third best next season, at least I feel with Kimi they have a driver who will push for more points than Massa has been able to. It might mean the constructors championship is more within reach if Fred and Kimi are as consistent as we are used to. Stefano is a nice guy or at least comes across that way. That doesn't mean he is necessarily the best guy to be leading Ferrari. Under Todt it was sterile, corporate, but the results came in. Stefano has opened Ferrari up to the media and to some extent the fans, but there is no denying the important aspect of running the team has suffered over the past 6 years. Ferrari need to regain that ruthless attitude and getting rid of Felipe at least shows they are recognising the problem rather than trying to remain loyal to a driver who often struggles.

In a world where a tenth over means you're too slow , taking several years to recognize the problem is (I can't think of how to end this sentence )........

[Bagwan]

2014 will be Domenicali's last year if nothing changes.

I'd go further, and say it could well be Luca's last too.

Whatever the reason for re-signing Kimi (best driver available/panic in case Fernando walked), both Domenicali and Luca have put themselves in the firing line.

The driver line-up leaves no excuse in that department.

The FIAT board will know that.

Failure will be seen as a management issue by them.

Yes , but do you really have the time to lead this team ?
It will take quite a commitment .

[henners88]

In a world where a tenth over means you're too slow , taking several years to recognize the problem is (I can't think of how to end this sentence )........

It's very sloppy I think. Felipe is a likeable character and they may have felt loyal to supporting his recovery and rightly so. However his often poor results have cost them dearly in terms of the constructors championship and it's reached a stage where they need a solid number 2. Alonso is very happy with Felipe as he rarely gets in the way and is no major threat to Alonso's title challenge. It was made public that Fernando had defended Felipe before the news Kimi had been signed and I feel that is just a driver protecting his own interests. There's no secret that Alonso's place within the team is about to get a lot more difficult with Kimi likely getting a lot closer to him in races. The team, any team is bigger than its drivers so it'll simply have to work out. I think Ferrari have done the right thing replacing Felipe.

[Bagwan]

Sloppy ?

No .
Not strong enough .

Mousa is a number twelve driver at best .

[Parabolica]

2014 will be Domenicali's last year if nothing changes.

I'd go further, and say it could well be Luca's last too.

Whatever the reason for re-signing Kimi (best driver available/panic in case Fernando walked), both Domenicali and Luca have put themselves in the firing line.

The driver line-up leaves no excuse in that department.

The FIAT board will know that.

Failure will be seen as a management issue by them.

Yes , but do you really have the time to lead this team ?
It will take quite a commitment .

I'm afraid I've got my hands full in my current occupation.

It's not easy being Shakira's Lust Object, you know!

[Parabolica]

Sloppy ?

No .
Not strong enough .

Mousa is a number twelve driver at best .

Massa should have been gone long ago. The end 0f 2010, for me.

It will be interesting to see how things develop next year at Ferrari.

So long as we get Motivated Kimi and not the Ice-Cream Licker, it should be ok on the driver front.

People forget that, even with the Mclaren team against him, Fernando nearly won the title in 07 in a most hostile environment, so I think it is hopeful, to the say the least, for people to think he can't cope with a strong team-mate.

As I said before, I hope the two of them are battling for wins.

If the car is only capable of podiums, at best, then both drivers will be difficult to manage for the team - Fernando because once again Ferrari will have failed to deliver and there will be fall-out from that, and Kimi because, well, he is already on record as saying he struggles for motivation if the car is not a challenger.

Let us hope that the wind-tunnel and the engine department come up with something.

For me,part of the failure to produce a car capable of bossing a championship since '08 is due to the sea-change in methodology brought on by the testing ban, and the increase in simulation development.

Ferrari got caught by being too reliant on the things that worked in the testing era, and had failed to keep pace with the new, relevant tooling which Red Bull have excelled in.

It was inevitable, since up until 2008 there was no need to change a successful formula. But often, a teams strength is also its weakness, and the successes of the system perfected in the Todt/Brawn/Byrne triumvirate are, in some ways, what has led to the weaknesses in the current Scuderia.

For the blame for that, I would target Luca. Happy to Lord it in the good times, rash to promote on Nationality and a politically-fuelled ambition, side-tracked into talk of running 3 cars, and all the while not having the foresight to see that the world was changing.

To claim, as some do, that the current driver line-up is responsible for the relative lack of success since the start of 2010 is both uneducated, unaware and simplistic.

To think, as some do, that the return of Kimi will show that the recent Number 1 driver has failed, is again simplistic.

The problems of Ferrari go much deeper than the decision to retain Massa for too long.

In some ways, the decision to keep him post-accident, where his contributions have been intermittent, if one is feeling charitable, have merely accelerated and brought into sharper focus the current managerial issues affecting Maranello, for had he been replaced by a driver who had contributed more, and had, for the sake of argument, those contributions enabled Alonso to claim two titles (a not unfeasible supposition), then the cracks would have been papered over, but the fundamental weakness of the Scuderias construction would not only still be there, but would be even further behind in the future.

Pat Fry is, hopefully, bringing the team's technical department into shape, and the recent additions should, I trust, help and move the department forward, but while there remains at the head a management which is slow to react, something Todt's team were not guilty of, then there is underlying trouble brewing which will not be cured in the short term.

Todt gave Ferrari a real determination. It was not corporate, or sterile. Far from it, it was attacking and it was confrontational and it was pushy.

Three attributes that could never be laid at Domenicali's door.

But three attributes vital to success.

[Bagwan]

Sloppy ?

No .
Not strong enough .

Mousa is a number twelve driver at best .

Massa should have been gone long ago. The end 0f 2010, for me.

It will be interesting to see how things develop next year at Ferrari.

So long as we get Motivated Kimi and not the Ice-Cream Licker, it should be ok on the driver front.

People forget that, even with the Mclaren team against him, Fernando nearly won the title in 07 in a most hostile environment, so I think it is hopeful, to the say the least, for people to think he can't cope with a strong team-mate.

As I said before, I hope the two of them are battling for wins.

If the car is only capable of podiums, at best, then both drivers will be difficult to manage for the team - Fernando because once again Ferrari will have failed to deliver and there will be fall-out from that, and Kimi because, well, he is already on record as saying he struggles for motivation if the car is not a challenger.

Let us hope that the wind-tunnel and the engine department come up with something.

For me,part of the failure to produce a car capable of bossing a championship since '08 is due to the sea-change in methodology brought on by the testing ban, and the increase in simulation development.

Ferrari got caught by being too reliant on the things that worked in the testing era, and had failed to keep pace with the new, relevant tooling which Red Bull have excelled in.

It was inevitable, since up until 2008 there was no need to change a successful formula. But often, a teams strength is also its weakness, and the successes of the system perfected in the Todt/Brawn/Byrne triumvirate are, in some ways, what has led to the weaknesses in the current Scuderia.

For the blame for that, I would target Luca. Happy to Lord it in the good times, rash to promote on Nationality and a politically-fuelled ambition, side-tracked into talk of running 3 cars, and all the while not having the foresight to see that the world was changing.

To claim, as some do, that the current driver line-up is responsible for the relative lack of success since the start of 2010 is both uneducated, unaware and simplistic.

To think, as some do, that the return of Kimi will show that the recent Number 1 driver has failed, is again simplistic.

The problems of Ferrari go much deeper than the decision to retain Massa for too long.

In some ways, the decision to keep him post-accident, where his contributions have been intermittent, if one is feeling charitable, have merely accelerated and brought into sharper focus the current managerial issues affecting Maranello, for had he been replaced by a driver who had contributed more, and had, for the sake of argument, those contributions enabled Alonso to claim two titles (a not unfeasible supposition), then the cracks would have been papered over, but the fundamental weakness of the Scuderias construction would not only still be there, but would be even further behind in the future.

Pat Fry is, hopefully, bringing the team's technical department into shape, and the recent additions should, I trust, help and move the department forward, but while there remains at the head a management which is slow to react, something Todt's team were not guilty of, then there is underlying trouble brewing which will not be cured in the short term.

Todt gave Ferrari a real determination. It was not corporate, or sterile. Far from it, it was attacking and it was confrontational and it was pushy.

Three attributes that could never be laid at Domenicali's door.

But three attributes vital to success.

Todt and co. could see that bigger picture , even with Rubinho's pout in the way .
Luca and Stefano haven't seemed able to see past the lip , until now .

I can't disagree with anything in that post of yours .
Others have had issues with tunnels but the red one has so far been a dud .

The whole pot needs stirring .

[Parabolica]

It's not just the wind Tunnel, it's the CFD, the Simulator, everything which is required to be the best in the current F1 framework is behind the curve.

If Montezemolo had real political ambition, the thing he needed to do was overturn the Testing Ban. Fiorano was the Scuderia's main weapon, and the one thing nobody else had.

That he has not even tried to get it back is an indication that he is well passed his sell-by-date.

The problem is that the one man who could have is now on the other side of the fence, at the top of the FIA.

Again, that was a dreadful miscalculation by Luca. Not only did he force Todt from the team, it gave Todt the opportunity to go to the one place where Todt could call the shots.

Not the work of a Machievallian genius.

Then there is the issue of sweet little Stefano.

How lovely it is that the once nasty, boo-hiss Ferrari are more media friendly!

What a crock of faeces.

Todt understood that media-friendliness wins nothing, brings nothing and is worth nothing.

Unless something helps Ferrari win, it is worthless.

So, keep smiling, Stefano, and keep being cheerful and media-friendly, because our rivals love it.

There is nothing to be afraid of in the Ferrari management anymore, nothing that the opposition fear.

The only weapon Ferrari have had is Alonso, but no matter how great a talent is behind the wheel, it needs great management within the team to combine with it to bring success.

The 2000-2004 Ferrari team were that combination, but until Todt, Brawn & Byrne had set up the infrastructure needed, the driving talent alone hadn't been enough. Nearly enough, but not enough.

Since 2010, Ferrari have had a super-talent in the car who has nearly, nearly brought success, Nearly, but not quite.

The difference between 2000 and 2014 won't be the drivers, it will be the management.

The biggest problem for Ferrari is finding the next Todt.

People like that do not grow on trees, and a quick look around the motorsport world shows to me that there aren't any examples to suggest.