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30th March 2009, 17:02 #1
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Couple of thoughts about Brawn GP
I was thinking and had a couple of ideas and queries about Brawn GP?
The first is if (thats if) Brawn GP win the drivers or constructors championship how long will it have been since a Private team won the championship without any form of manufatcture support or a works engine deal?
I was also thinking if they carry on like this, surely it won't be long before they do get enquiries from car manufactures about support or an engine deal maybe simliar to BMW with Williams or Honda before they bought out BAR, and in light of the whole BAR to Honda to collapse debarcle would they be wise to turn it down or would they have no choice?
My final one is that how important have Jorg Zander and Loic Bigois been to this seasons sucess?
Thanks
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30th March 2009, 17:48 #2
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That would be Benneton in 1994 with customer Ford engines?
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30th March 2009, 18:55 #3
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Originally Posted by Mark
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30th March 2009, 22:00 #4
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Off the top of my head - 1982, Keke Rosberg in the Williams with Cosworth DFV power. I know Cosworth had a few "development" teams but as far as I'm aware there was no official Ford backing at that time, they only came back in in an "official" capacity with the Haas-Lolas in 1985 before switching to Benetton in 1987 (so yeah Schuey in '94 doesn't count)
That's if you don't count the McLarens of 1984-86 who used TAG-funded, Porsche-designed (but not funded) engines on an exclusive basis, bit of a grey area that...
As for your other questions/points. I've always said the best formula for success for a team is to partner a proper racing team with a manufacturer's engines and financing. For example BAR under Prodrive/David Richards and Honda engines were better than when they just became "Honda", while I think Renault's success was partly down to pretty much leaving the Benetton team as it was besides a rename and a lick of yellow paint. I also think a factory-backed Williams-Toyota would probably outdo both the works Toyotas and (obviously) Williams in their current state. Look at the job they've done with the FW31. With Toyota funding behind it it could have been up there with the Brawns this weekend. So I think a manufacturer looking to join or even stay in F1 could do a lot worse than look at a tie up with, rather than buy-out of, Brawn.
As for Zander and Bigois, I would guess a lot. Yes Ross Brawn very rightly gets a lot of plaudits both as technical director and now team owner, but I doubt he was personally responsible for the design of a single part on the car, it's all about getting the right people underneath you as well. Of course there will be lots of engineers at Honda/Brawn underneath those two whose names we probably don't even know who deserve a lot of credit as well. Yes the car has had a long lead time and reportedly lots of Honda funding thrown at it before they quit, but the people on the ground need to know what they are doing.
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30th March 2009, 22:04 #5
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Benetton had factory support in 94 and was the only team that got the new Zetec-R that year.
To find a team that won a championship without support you may have to go back to the DFV era when anyone could buy that engine and put it in their car.I got my motorcycle jacket, but I'm walking all the time...
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31st March 2009, 02:58 #6
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I know Bigois helped with Prost in the late 90s, and they made some good cars. Not sure if he was there when they made their best car (1997), but I'm guessing he's had a good effect.
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31st March 2009, 04:42 #7
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For me, one race isn't enough of a sample to go on. We really don't know how good they are. Do they have a leg up on everyone else or did they just nail the weekend (a la Toro Rosso at Monza)?
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31st March 2009, 08:41 #8
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It makes me wonder what on earth 750 people were actually doing. I did read there were 400 staff 4years ago. It doesn't make Honda look to good - I would agree that a simple engine supplier role is far better than taking the whole operation over.
Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???
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31st March 2009, 08:43 #9
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Originally Posted by AndyRACPlease 'like' our facebook page http://www.facebook.com/motorsportforums
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31st March 2009, 08:47 #10
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Originally Posted by MarkOpinions are like ar5eholes, everyone has one.
Those of "questionable knowledge" will be the scientists. You might think that rocket science is hard but: Rocket Scientist: Someone who understands Newton's Laws of motion and basic chemistry....
What's the first thing to come to...