Couple of thoughts about Brawn GP

[Charlie]

I was thinking and had a couple of ideas and queries about Brawn GP?

The first is if (thats if) Brawn GP win the drivers or constructors championship how long will it have been since a Private team won the championship without any form of manufatcture support or a works engine deal?

I was also thinking if they carry on like this, surely it won't be long before they do get enquiries from car manufactures about support or an engine deal maybe simliar to BMW with Williams or Honda before they bought out BAR, and in light of the whole BAR to Honda to collapse debarcle would they be wise to turn it down or would they have no choice?

My final one is that how important have Jorg Zander and Loic Bigois been to this seasons sucess?

Thanks

[Mark]

That would be Benneton in 1994 with customer Ford engines?

[jens]

That would be Benneton in 1994 with customer Ford engines?

Didn't they have that so-called factory support? In 1993 McLaren and Senna were furious that "factory-supported Benetton" got superior engines. Since McLaren went for a new engine supplier in '94, I guess the same relationship between Benetton and Ford continued in 1994?

[V12]

Off the top of my head - 1982, Keke Rosberg in the Williams with Cosworth DFV power. I know Cosworth had a few "development" teams but as far as I'm aware there was no official Ford backing at that time, they only came back in in an "official" capacity with the Haas-Lolas in 1985 before switching to Benetton in 1987 (so yeah Schuey in '94 doesn't count)

That's if you don't count the McLarens of 1984-86 who used TAG-funded, Porsche-designed (but not funded) engines on an exclusive basis, bit of a grey area that...


As for your other questions/points. I've always said the best formula for success for a team is to partner a proper racing team with a manufacturer's engines and financing. For example BAR under Prodrive/David Richards and Honda engines were better than when they just became "Honda", while I think Renault's success was partly down to pretty much leaving the Benetton team as it was besides a rename and a lick of yellow paint. I also think a factory-backed Williams-Toyota would probably outdo both the works Toyotas and (obviously) Williams in their current state. Look at the job they've done with the FW31. With Toyota funding behind it it could have been up there with the Brawns this weekend. So I think a manufacturer looking to join or even stay in F1 could do a lot worse than look at a tie up with, rather than buy-out of, Brawn.

As for Zander and Bigois, I would guess a lot. Yes Ross Brawn very rightly gets a lot of plaudits both as technical director and now team owner, but I doubt he was personally responsible for the design of a single part on the car, it's all about getting the right people underneath you as well. Of course there will be lots of engineers at Honda/Brawn underneath those two whose names we probably don't even know who deserve a lot of credit as well. Yes the car has had a long lead time and reportedly lots of Honda funding thrown at it before they quit, but the people on the ground need to know what they are doing.

[ChrisS]

Benetton had factory support in 94 and was the only team that got the new Zetec-R that year.

To find a team that won a championship without support you may have to go back to the DFV era when anyone could buy that engine and put it in their car.

[woody2goody]

I know Bigois helped with Prost in the late 90s, and they made some good cars. Not sure if he was there when they made their best car (1997), but I'm guessing he's had a good effect.

[ykiki]

For me, one race isn't enough of a sample to go on. We really don't know how good they are. Do they have a leg up on everyone else or did they just nail the weekend (a la Toro Rosso at Monza)?

[AndyRAC]

It makes me wonder what on earth 750 people were actually doing. I did read there were 400 staff 4years ago. It doesn't make Honda look to good - I would agree that a simple engine supplier role is far better than taking the whole operation over.

[Mark]

It makes me wonder what on earth 750 people were actually doing. I did read there were 400 staff 4years ago. It doesn't make Honda look to good - I would agree that a simple engine supplier role is far better than taking the whole operation over.

That sort of thing mushrooms quite quickly. When you consider in an F1 factory, or in fact any large organisation, how many people there are actually producing output vs, the people who are there to look after those people and the people to tell those people what to do.

[SGWilko]

how many people there are actually producing output vs, the people who are there to look after those people and the people to tell those people what to do.

What a brilliant description of the UK NHS service....