Why has GT1 Died in America?

[rob01]

well its all about GT3 now it seems.
its entry list is 40 strong with 12 different manufactures!

[Bob Riebe]

well its all about GT3 now it seems.
its entry list is 40 strong with 12 different manufactures!

Not in the U.S.; GT3 for money or not is nothing more, and actually less than many in the past, an SCCA amateur class.

[SportscarBruce]

GT1 has been priced out of the market through the rulebook in order to ensure a car priced $45-$110k routinely defeats exotics priced $200k and up. The C5 and C6 should have been GT2 cars from day 1.

[Bob Riebe]

GT1 has been priced out of the market through the rulebook in order to ensure a car priced $45-$110k routinely defeats exotics priced $200k and up. The C5 and C6 should have been GT2 cars from day 1.

That makes no sense, the logic?

[SportscarBruce]

That makes no sense, the logic?

There are two cost involved, one is tangible ($) and the other is less easily weighed, but pertinent nonetheless (prestige).

By allowing the Corvette to morph from converted street car into a dedicated racing prototype with a few stock bones within its skeleton, the other GT1 contenders must either reengineer their entries at an extremely high cost or compete under a handicap. Placed next to a stock Corvette the C6R is practically a different car with a somewhat similar profile. The track is wider (very important difference), the body parts are different, i.e. the street car diffuser is far smaller and less functional (the exhaust placement ruins the flow) nor is the hood on the street model a flow-through design.

For a stock-based category the GT1 has strayed too far from its intended place on the grid, from stock-based racecar to stock-appearing prototype, with an accompanying increase in price of admission. In short that covers the price quotent.

The other prohibitive cost is simply this; the risk of losing to a practically scratch-build racecar bearing the nameplate of a admittedly high performing but mass produced vehicle sold for a fraction of the price ruins the motovation factor for the likes of Ferrari, Pagani, and Lambo. It's why we'll never see an Enzo in race clothing on track, why the ALMS Zonda and Saleen are no more.

In order to revive GT1 this decreasing radius rulebook needs to be reset back to the late 90's and its original intent; a stock-based supercar category.

Perhaps my reliance on years of observation vs hours of research preceeding this post means I have some of the facts wrong, but undoubtedly someone will correct them.

PS: If the Corvette C6 GT2 version doesn't automatically clean up in the category that pretty much cements the thesis...

[Bob Riebe]

There are two cost involved, one is tangible ($) and the other is less easily weighed, but pertinent nonetheless (prestige).

By allowing the Corvette to morph from converted street car into a dedicated racing prototype with a few stock bones within its skeleton, the other GT1 contenders must either reengineer their entries at an extremely high cost or compete under a handicap. Placed next to a stock Corvette the C6R is practically a different car with a somewhat similar profile. The track is wider (very important difference), the body parts are different, i.e. the street car diffuser is far smaller and less functional (the exhaust placement ruins the flow) nor is the hood on the street model a flow-through design.

For a stock-based category the GT1 has strayed too far from its intended place on the grid, from stock-based racecar to stock-appearing prototype, with an accompanying increase in price of admission. In short that covers the price quotent.

The other prohibitive cost is simply this; the risk of losing to a practically scratch-build racecar bearing the nameplate of a admittedly high performing but mass produced vehicle sold for a fraction of the price ruins the motovation factor for the likes of Ferrari, Pagani, and Lambo. It's why we'll never see an Enzo in race clothing on track, why the ALMS Zonda and Saleen are no more.

In order to revive GT1 this decreasing radius rulebook needs to be reset back to the late 90's and its original intent; a stock-based supercar category.

Perhaps my reliance on years of observation vs hours of research preceeding this post means I have some of the facts wrong, but undoubtedly someone will correct them.

PS: If the Corvette C6 GT2 version doesn't automatically clean up in the category that pretty much cements the thesis...

THe rules have ALWAYS been that loose.
When Chevy started they did the norm of modifying a street car; a gent involved with ACO GTs told them that, like it or not, does not work with the ACO formula; they had to, more or less, design a racing chassis and make make required prod. components fit, to be able to win.
ALL GTs use the same rules, so NOTHING has it worse than another.
Sadly, the GT1s are and always have been, even with tire limites, more liberal in critical areas, than the old IMSA AAGT cars.

The money Chevy put into special cylinder heads designed to work with the restrictors made the difference.

[SportscarBruce]

THe rules have ALWAYS been that loose.

IIRC following the 1999 season GM lobbied for, and received, modification to the rulebook that allowed a wider track and non-stock suspension (geometry, dimension, and pick-up points). Basically the out-of-the-mold C5 Corvette design was inferior to the GTS Viper.

Alas my search for information on this topic has been unsuccessful, i.e. Mulsanne Mike's site has a great deal of info concerning the prototype classes, but not GTS.

Perhaps Mr. Robinson can chime in?

Robinson joined IMSA in 1996 after spending two years as Director of Technical Services for SCCA Pro Racing. He became Managing Director and partner in 2000, and was named Executive Director in early 2002 when Dr. Don Panoz purchased IMSA. Robinson has been involved in the development of technical rules and specifications for race production sports cars for more than 10 years.

Much of his 31-year career at General Motors was spent in the Delco Products Division, primarily in the design and production of automotive suspension components. During his last 11 years at GM, he served as Corvette Development Manager including overseeing the showroom stock racing program and creating the Corvette Challenge series and the World Challenge series. He also directed the development of the 1990 Corvette ZR-1 program and was the "vehicle architect" for the ground breaking, fifth generation Corvette C5 project which began production in 1997.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.a...FS=ALMS-LEMANS

Sensitive questions for important people are, or should be, the responsibility of journalist. You know, like on the TV show I'm watching now - MSNBC's Hardball. But in the absence of such investigative journalism this message board stuff will have to suffice.

[SportscarBruce]

I think a more serious question now is will the IMSA survive.

You mean, like reach the bankruptcy cliff and sell off to the stock car series, like Grand-Am (quoting TV talking head; "the few-cha of sports car racing in Amerika")???

Sebring 12 hour tickets are $100 at the gate, which is a 25% gain over 2003. It's the only series I know of that's able to raise ticket prices in this economy.

big

[Bob Riebe]

IIRC following the 1999 season GM lobbied for, and received, modification to the rulebook that allowed a wider track and non-stock suspension (geometry, dimension, and pick-up points). Basically the out-of-the-mold C5 Corvette design was inferior to the GTS Viper.

NO they finally REALLY read the rule book after speaking with some others, and the longer than stock suspension arms were always legal.
They just started exploiting the rules to the fullest.
Pick-up points on the chassis did not change.

THe ACO rules have always been a contrived scam.

[Bob Riebe]

You mean, like reach the bankruptcy cliff and sell off to the stock car series, like Grand-Am (quoting TV talking head; "the few-cha of sports car racing in Amerika")???

Sebring 12 hour tickets are $100 at the gate, which is a 25% gain over 2003. It's the only series I know of that's able to raise ticket prices in this economy.

big

With 25 cars for the BIGGEST race of the year, and some dropping out after this race, I don't think too many beyond the loyal are going to really pay more for less.
The best thing that happened to Sebring was the France family concern going insane and starting GARRA.
The 24 hrs of Daytona is a pathetic shadow of what it once was.