A big " hello" to all those members who....

[gadjo_dilo]

Convenient, but worth Russia having a stranglehold over your country?

1.Why don't you let me go home??????????
2.We're not a very rich country and don't have enough resources.
3.The import of gas is probably the most convenient. What's the use of energy independence if we wouldn't be able to pay the bills?
4. Stranglehold? It's a business partner neither better nor worse than others.

[Azumanga Davo]

Convenient, but lazy. It's now a good time to set aside some funding to get the ball rolling.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Daniel, you are not wrong in saying people need to conserve more but lets face a fact here. No one can live without Gas and Oil and those industries and home owners that need it are not going to be able to put up a windmill or a solar panel in the next 10 years and take themselves off the grid. In the mean time ole Putin is putting the screws on the supply to prove a political point. Nice eh? Play nice with the Russian bear or you get screwed?

You can say what you like about world politics but the last time I looked, the only regimes that played games like this in the past were not people you wanted to have as business partners. To put the screws to Russia would be a wonderful thing but most of Eastern Europe seems to be on the hook for this gas and oil supply and it is very much a cruel game that Putin and his puppet are playing. To those who think the USSR is dead, it is sort of alive in other ways I guess.....

[Daniel]

Daniel, you are not wrong in saying people need to conserve more but lets face a fact here. No one can live without Gas and Oil and those industries and home owners that need it are not going to be able to put up a windmill or a solar panel in the next 10 years and take themselves off the grid. In the mean time ole Putin is putting the screws on the supply to prove a political point. Nice eh? Play nice with the Russian bear or you get screwed?

Of course regular people can't afford panels or turbines themselves. But the governments need to start thinking about this or at the very least establishing links to middle east pipelines.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Daniel....this is fine to say that but it doesn't help Gadjo in his flat in Romania today if the Russians cut off the gas.

Your solutions are down the road and sound good but they are down the road. What the Russians are doing is economic terrorism and it should be talked about in a lot more negative light than it is. What they are doing in many ways is every bit as heinous as their invasion of Georgia was.....

[Daniel]

Daniel....this is fine to say that but it doesn't help Gadjo in his flat in Romania today if the Russians cut off the gas.

Your solutions are down the road and sound good but they are down the road. What the Russians are doing is economic terrorism and it should be talked about in a lot more negative light than it is. What they are doing in many ways is every bit as heinous as their invasion of Georgia was.....

Her flat

Of course my solution does nothing to help today but what can? What is happening today is the very reasoning for what I said in my other thread. These countries need to work towards weening themselves off the USSR's oily teat. Sooner rather than later or this is going to get serious if it isn't already serious.

I agree this is bad and in some ways probably worse than what happened in Georgia hence my other thread

[Easy Drifter]

Everbody in Canada pays lip service to 'Green Energy" but not in my back yard (nimby) prevails.
Everywhere wind farms are proposed up springs the opposition. Two that I can think of quickly are out in the Thousand Islands of Georgian Bay on some of the smaller islands. Opposition quickly spang up, mostly from people in The GTA who have cottages the area. Second area suggested was 2 miles off the Scarborough Bluffs in Lake Ontario. This is offshore by 2 miles in the eastern end of Toronto. Immediate opposition. Every other wind farm recently proposed has opposition.
We now turn to Hydro Electric. Neither of the two I am going to mention are large plants. The first is at the vacation town of Bala where there is a rapid flow of water from Lake Muskoka into the Moon River over the Bala Falls. The proposal, now modified, will have very little impact on the Falls and the plant as designed will blend into the area. Nimbys galore.
The second proposal is on the Severn River, part of the Trent Severn Waterway. There are already 2 power plants on the River, one at Big Chute, also the site of the largest Marine railway in the world. The second one is at Swift Rapids and was one of the first Hydro Electric Power plants in Canada. It is owned by the City of Orillia. The planned location is on a wilderness stretch of the river with no road access and no cottages as it is Crown land (Govt. owned). Again all sorts of opposition mainly centred from cottagers on other parts of the river.
It may be different in Europe but here the public want 'Green Power' only if it is not near them.

[Daniel]

It may be different in Europe but here the public want 'Green Power' only if it is not near them.

No different

http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/lette...oil.4801083.jp

And yes that is my comment on that story

[Eki]

What the Russians are doing is economic terrorism and it should be talked about in a lot more negative light than it is.

Yes, just like the sanctions against Cuba, Iran and North Korea are economic terrorism.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yes, just like the sanctions against Cuba, Iran and North Korea are economic terrorism.

Those sanctions are really easy to get around in Cuba's case. The US is the only nation that doesn't trade with Cuba. If Cuba is a hole, at some point Castro should look in the mirror for why. I don't agree with the US embargo there but hey...that is something that I have seen as US politicians trying to curry favour with the large Cuban emigre community in South Florida.

As for Iran or North Korea, look hard at their human rights record. Take a good long look at the Amnesty International reports on those two nations. You really think seriously that trading with either one of them would do much to help those people? REALLY? You would have to be delusional. North Korea wouldn't have anything to trade with the US if truth be told. What would they trade back? Grass? no...that was fed to the people there because they have ruined their agriculutural base with communist management. The US has given grain to North Korea a lot over the years to try to fend off the starvation that our little midget buddy Kim was pretty much ok with.

Eki....we wont even start with Iran. GE has been trading their through their German division for years. That embargo has been more artificial than real and again, what has Iran done but antagonize the US? That said, most people in Europe have nothing but distrust for Iran as well. The Iranians have been threatening to create a bomb for the last few years and the last time I looked the European nations have had little sucess getting anything done there. Iran, North Korea and Cuba will all do what they do to their own people regardless of sanctions.