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  1. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubaruNorway View Post
    You don't know much about Mikkelsen do you? Look up 2009, not an experience i want to go through again.
    I wrote my comment in a hurry and should have been more articulate.
    I am not talking about the kind of hardships you are refering to. What I am refering to is contracts - he got them real good and real early. He has been in a very comfortable position for years (no worries of getting dropped, superior car, well paid, no lead driver pressure) and in my mind, that has not been good for his development.

  2. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    we have to remember that this performance was with fresh homologated parts to suit his driving.Really not good.
    Well said mate. I still rate him highly, but his performances in Italy and Poland were for me, quite shocking. Especially when you consider the new parts he had on his car in Poland. Since when was Lefebvre a benchmark for anyone? The slowest wrc driver this year....

    Mikkelsen's results probably would have been very, very similar overall had he been driving an R5 Skoda in Sardinia and Poland instead. Which obviously doesn't reflect well on Citroen or Andreas whatsoever...

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  4. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by er88 View Post
    Well said mate. I still rate him highly, but his performances in Italy and Poland were for me, quite shocking. Especially when you consider the new parts he had on his car in Poland. Since when was Lefebvre a benchmark for anyone? The slowest wrc driver this year....

    Mikkelsen's results probably would have been very, very similar overall had he been driving an R5 Skoda in Sardinia and Poland instead. Which obviously doesn't reflect well on Citroen or Andreas whatsoever...
    Com'on guys! The new homologated parts is not "to suit his driving" - it is to solve C3 "handling issues" or as they say "to make car more versatile". Which means that after changed part you have a lot of development work, so don't expect instant results.
    I think Andreas was hired to get some different input (from someone who has been involved in polo development!) and do some development work. That's why, I think, he had only objective - to finish the rally and he did just that.
    For me, this quote sums it all up:
    Andreas, after powerstage in Poland (he was 3rd): "We gave it a go. This stage is much more enjoyable with better grip. A clean stage and I'm happy to end the rally like this."

  5. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by er88 View Post
    Well said mate. I still rate him highly, but his performances in Italy and Poland were for me, quite shocking. Especially when you consider the new parts he had on his car in Poland. Since when was Lefebvre a benchmark for anyone? The slowest wrc driver this year....
    As mentioned Lefebvre was also a lot faster than Breen, exactly opposite to what has been the case on all previous outings this year. Not saying Mikkelsen's result was very good, but Lefevbre in Poland certainly wasn't the slowest wrc driver. (clearly faster than Hanninen, Evans, Ostberg and Breen).


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcco View Post
    Com'on guys! The new homologated parts is not "to suit his driving" - it is to solve C3 "handling issues" or as they say "to make car more versatile". Which means that after changed part you have a lot of development work, so don't expect instant results.
    I think Andreas was hired to get some different input (from someone who has been involved in polo development!) and do some development work. That's why, I think, he had only objective - to finish the rally and he did just that.
    For me, this quote sums it all up:
    Andreas, after powerstage in Poland (he was 3rd): "We gave it a go. This stage is much more enjoyable with better grip. A clean stage and I'm happy to end the rally like this."
    I wrote before that his result in PS was the best Citroen PS result this year. (on 8th rally of the season by a hired-in driver).

    (Lefevbre was better in Monte cause he had dry stage while others had snow)

    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    there were dry stages as well.
    Yes there were dry stages on Saturday, which meant two things
    a) Mikkelsen was loosing time as 2nd car on the road in the morning
    and
    b)got 2x 5th and 1x 3rd place in the afternoon, which is probably where we would expect him had the rally been dry the whole way
    (that picture of Neuville is from his puncture on SS16, where Mikkelsen was 5th)
    Last edited by mknight; 17th July 2017 at 10:51.

  6. #435
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    some guys are pleased with Mikkelsens performance,but NOT with citroens performance.Strange.

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  8. #436
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    I think this Mikkelsen issue is showing us how tight is actually the difference between perfoming well and not performing well in WRC.
    Andreas Mikkelsen is one of the fastest drivers in the field. No doubts. He has won rallies and set fastest times. He is fast and consistent.

    Btw I also agree there are not many excuses in what he is doing in citroen.

    I think that actually a driver is not just fast or good. A driver can be the best in the universe under certain circumstances, and the worst under others. Everyone of them is different. Just look at Neuville. He was crashing all the time since one year ago. Then Hyundai changed his engineer and he has became WDC material.
    Yes they also made the new i20 which should be better than other cars but how come that Paddon and Sordo are not 2nd and 3rd in the WDC ranking?

    Look at Ogier. We all agree he is the best but he is struggling a lil bit with Fiesta while his teammate Tanak is doing his best season so far with the same car.
    The fact is that even a little change can revolutionize the situation.

    So we can continue to argue if Mikkelsen is good driver or not. Or we can analyze a little bit deeper and try to understand what is making him slower than usual with Citroen.
    Last edited by AL14; 17th July 2017 at 17:18.

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  10. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    As mentioned Lefebvre was also a lot faster than Breen, exactly opposite to what has been the case on all previous outings this year. Not saying Mikkelsen's result was very good, but Lefevbre in Poland certainly wasn't the slowest wrc driver. (clearly faster than Hanninen, Evans, Ostberg and Breen).




    I wrote before that his result in PS was the best Citroen PS result this year. (on 8th rally of the season by a hired-in driver).

    (Lefevbre was better in Monte cause he had dry stage while others had snow)



    Yes there were dry stages on Saturday, which meant two things
    a) Mikkelsen was loosing time as 2nd car on the road in the morning
    and
    b)got 2x 5th and 1x 3rd place in the afternoon, which is probably where we would expect him had the rally been dry the whole way
    (that picture of Neuville is from his puncture on SS16, where Mikkelsen was 5th)
    But this is what I don't get about You, unless you just don't like Meeke and love Andreas? You've been slating Meeke all season, but then in your last two or three posts above are trying to defend Andreas' performance in his so called "best rally", by saying he was marginally faster than the slowest WRC driver this season, in an older spec car? And you're looking for any excuse under the sun possible to make sense of how poor his last two rallies have been.

    The reason Andreas was so far behind Lefebvre overall was because he made silly mistakes ( like Meeke this season), but you seem to think it's a reason to justify Mikkelsen's result? Yet you slate Meeke for crashing while fighting for wins? Mikkelsen was crashing and making mistakes while struggling to match Lefebvre and toddling around in 9th/10th place on both rallies in Sardinia and Poland. Suninen in his first ever WRC start smashed Andreas pace wise.

    I understand people having drivers they don't like, or favour, but surely that doesn't blind people to the point where they can't see things objectively? Some of Meeke's offs this season have been his own fault, he has to take the blame for that. He's been frustrated and has pushed the car too hard in an attempt to get competitive times out of it. It's worked in Mexico, and he was on for the win in Corsica but he was stupid in other events. Funny thing is, I bet you would be the first slamming Meeke had he turned in performances like Mikkelsen has in his last two rallies. Yet here you are trying to justify two very, very poor results for the Norwegian.
    Last edited by er88; 17th July 2017 at 18:11.

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  12. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by er88 View Post
    The reason Andreas was so far behind Lefebvre overall was because he made silly mistakes ( like Meeke this season).
    exactly.

    But Mikkelsen is good,while Meeke is bad.

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  14. #439
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    Would be good to see Meeke and Mikkelsen in same rally, in same spec car.
    www.Rallye-info.com

  15. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by er88 View Post
    Funny thing is, I bet you would be the first slamming Meeke had he turned in performances like Mikkelsen has in his last two rallies. Yet here you are trying to justify two very, very poor results for the Norwegian.
    I'm sorry, but you are the one bringing Meeke in this discusson. That's why my reply will answe it. While Meeke wants to shine, Mikkelsen is geting his job more seriously. You can continue implying Mikkelsen is not fast (and that's true), but neither him or Citroen care abot that too much at the moment. It's fare to say that for only 2 events Mikkelsen has been more valuble for the team than Meeke for half a season.
    In contrast, Meeke has been focusing on his speed, and criticizing his car over and over. Yes, that's probably the case, but this is something other drivers don't usually do. They accept that they are slow, and get involved in the effort to fix this.
    In short, I believe both Mikkelsen and Meeke are experienced and fast drivers, but in current situation with Citroen, it's pointless to compare and judge them.

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