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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Yep, thread is about Mikkelsen.
    Btw, why are people assuming that it’s him that doesn’t want to get fully committed with Citroen? Veiby’s words sounded much like a pressure call for Matton to make up his mind and give Mikkelsen a permanent seat, at least till the end of the season.

    Matton still has 3 drivers under contract and surely he’s expecting to see how Meeke will return after the break; besides ’18 drivers market isn’t open yet (all waiting for Ogier moves) so why would he sign Mikkelsen if more capable lead drivers can become soon available?
    The statement was meant for both imo. It tells other teams he is still interested in other options and at same time puts pressure on Matton to give an offer.

    As to the "market", we actually don't know anything. Could be that some drivers have already signed.

    It's very unlikely we will get any knews about drivers changing teams before the end of the season (or atleast until titles are decided). Only thing we could expect announced before that is contract extensions at same team.


    Quote Originally Posted by EstWRC View Post
    if he had shown Meekelike pace then i would hire him if i were team principal....but being slower then Lefebvre on one of his favourite events doesnt do any good for him even when considering the car.
    He was faster than Lefebvre on pure speed, that is a fact, in very much same way as Lappi was faster than Hanninen in Portugal. Both ended behind in the overall results though for multiple reasons.


    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    I was thinking the same. If his results with Citroen are always at the bottom 5 he might not get a seat especially when guys like Sunninen are available.
    We have seen Mikkelsen vs Suninen in 3 rallies in R5 this year, Suninen was clearly a level behind. (This is not meant as criticism of Sunninen, more like a reality check to counter the hype).

    -------------
    ATM with the info available (see first part above), I see the options as relatively open for all 3 "free" top drivers (Ogier, Tanak, Mikkelsen). (Technically Lavala is also free)
    Ogier is probably most limited in his choices cause Hyundai prbly can't afford/doesn't want him with Neuville as n1, for Toyota it might create issues if they want to keep Latvala and he might hesitate to go to Citroen due to past issues and recent C3 performance.

    From manu side we have:

    M-Sport - likely to loose Ogier and have 1-2 free seats if Ford doesn't come, unlikely to go full "paydrivers" (aka. 2005), when it's only the 2nd year of this car, would want at least 1 very good driver.
    Toyota - very likely to drop Hanninen and would want a chance for manu title so need one that can secure good results on most events
    Citroen - 2 drivers with limited experience/unsure performance (Lefevbre especially), Meeke with unstable results. Car that needs development with input from other drivers than the 3 that developed it so far. (doesn't matter if they give right feedback if engineers don't trust their experience, none of the 3 have any experience with other cars from last 4 years)
    Hyundai - prbly not 100% satisfied with Sordo and Paddon, after all the point gap from Neuville is huge relative to point gap Ogier vs Tanak and they are not leading manu champ, even with probably the fastest car atm. Trying to help Paddon improve his tarmac pace, is an indicator that he is still wanted, but then they also expect that the tarmac speed really improves.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmm View Post
    He was spoiled by VW, not faced extreme hardships for getting his career going like Paddon, Tänak, etc. Now when things finally got tough for him, he seems lost.
    This comment only shows that you have not been following rallying during the last 8 years.

  3. #423
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
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    Last edited by EstWRC; 16th July 2017 at 17:41.
    Tänak: "Better than I expected. Lots of sideways - and we enjoy that."

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by EstWRC View Post

    Leg 1, 1:30 ish lost due to damaged suspension with his off. (note time difference is 1:10)
    Leg 2, 2 off-road drives, 10-20s in total. (time difference 2.8s)
    Leg 3, 20s off in "Tanak's corner" (time difference 17s)
    All these are clearly documented and all are driver mistakes. So in the end Mikkelsen is slower, but to say he is "clearly behind" Lefevbre on speed does not really tell the whole story.

    If you want Lappi vs Hanninen in Portugal since I used it for comparison:
    Leg 1, Damaged Intercooler for Lappi, faster before
    Leg, 2, Lappi faster until spin and damage in last stage
    Last edited by mknight; 16th July 2017 at 17:53.

  5. #425
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
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    ah i see, but these are his own mistakes and no one else to blame that he lost this time?


    anyway this is my last post regarding this topic...i have nothing against him and i was one of the guys here in the beginning of the year who kept yelling here that how come he doesnt have a seat and swap him with Lefebvre. Now they did that in sardinia and i was so sure he would do much better than Lefebvre even with minimal testing but for me these 2 outings have been rather disappointing.

    i wish him all the best and he definitely still deserves a seat in the series.
    Tänak: "Better than I expected. Lots of sideways - and we enjoy that."

  6. Likes: mknight (16th July 2017),pantealex (17th July 2017)
  7. #426
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    we have to remember that this performance was with fresh homologated parts to suit his driving.Really not good.

  8. Likes: er88 (17th July 2017),EstWRC (16th July 2017),pantealex (17th July 2017)
  9. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    we have to remember that this performance was with fresh homologated parts to suit his driving.Really not good.
    That were never tested on wet. Considering Citroen "didn't have good setup" for Monte and Sweden after testing for most of the year before sets things to perspective.

    EDIT: Also note where Breen was (a lot due to start position on Saturday, Sunday, but Mikkelsen was starting right behind him). Compare that to Breen vs Lefevbre on the other rallies.
    Last edited by mknight; 16th July 2017 at 18:10.

  10. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    That were never tested on wet. Considering Citroen "didn't have good setup" for Monte and Sweden after testing for most of the year before sets things to perspective.

    EDIT: Also note where Breen was (a lot due to start position on Saturday, Sunday, but Mikkelsen was starting right behind him). Compare that to Breen vs Lefevbre on the other rallies.
    there were dry stages as well.



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  12. #429
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    ATM with the info available (see first part above), I see the options as relatively open for all 3 "free" top drivers (Ogier, Tanak, Mikkelsen). (Technically Lavala is also free)
    Ogier is probably most limited in his choices cause Hyundai prbly can't afford/doesn't want him with Neuville as n1, for Toyota it might create issues if they want to keep Latvala and he might hesitate to go to Citroen due to past issues and recent C3 performance.

    From manu side we have:

    M-Sport - likely to loose Ogier and have 1-2 free seats if Ford doesn't come, unlikely to go full "paydrivers" (aka. 2005), when it's only the 2nd year of this car, would want at least 1 very good driver.
    Toyota - very likely to drop Hanninen and would want a chance for manu title so need one that can secure good results on most events
    Citroen - 2 drivers with limited experience/unsure performance (Lefevbre especially), Meeke with unstable results. Car that needs development with input from other drivers than the 3 that developed it so far. (doesn't matter if they give right feedback if engineers don't trust their experience, none of the 3 have any experience with other cars from last 4 years)
    Hyundai - prbly not 100% satisfied with Sordo and Paddon, after all the point gap from Neuville is huge relative to point gap Ogier vs Tanak and they are not leading manu champ, even with probably the fastest car atm. Trying to help Paddon improve his tarmac pace, is an indicator that he is still wanted, but then they also expect that the tarmac speed really improves.
    The 2018 Teams thread covers this pretty well. Hyundai has contracts for all three drivers for 2018, don't see a reason why they would start making changes. Citroen has also contracts for Meeke, Breen and Lefebvre. Matton said in an interview that they can hire one guy more (could be Ogier or Mikkelsen). No one else has contracts that we know of. There's rumors of Tänak going to Toyota and that he would have a contract with M-Sport for 2018 and Toyota would have to pay penalty of that but it's just a rumor. It's been said that Lappi is a long time investment for Toyota so he's probably continuing there.

  13. #430
    Senior Member jparker's Avatar
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    I think Mikkelsen was hired to help Citroen solve some of their problems. Driving for VW last year, and taking part of wrc17 development, made him very desirable choice for that job.
    Because of this his main goal with Citroen has nothing to do with how fast he is.
    As mentioned alreagy, he had proven how fast he is in R5.
    Also, when Citroen asked him to catch Evans at PS in Poland, he almost did so, posting second fastest time, and discarding the efforts of some title contenders.

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