Of customer cars & B-teams

[Tallgeese]

I am looking at Dazzla's onerous conditions 1, 3, 4 & 5. Looks to me like a "spend and lose lose" situation.
What would be the benefit of running a team under such conditions? Who the hell would want to chuck gazillions away for what?? It would be easier to just give the money away to the Salvos - at least it will do some good there.

Why start an F1 team? I mean, everybody in F1 is throwing gazillions every day. This is a means of creating a level playing field & introducing new people into F1 at less cost. Yes, one team benefits.

Under my plan, a constructor has facilities, but lacks design experience & know-how. They get an established partner to provide them with a design & a team of designers to 'set up' their facilities, & that saves costs in time, development, & so on. Since they're using a year-old chassis & a contemporary drive-train (engine+transmission+KERS) they are not given absolute advantage but merely a 'jump-start' towards becoming a fully fledged constructor.

You have to show someone how to swim & guide them through it before they can do it alone!

[Valve Bounce]

OK!! so we have team Tallgoose, since you are only allowed to run one car, one second hand car driven by a rookie in races where you can't score championship points. Your rookie driver brings up the rear of the grid (we are assuming that Honda finally gets their cars off the back row). He finishes last in half his races - the other half, he is so desperate to get ahead of the cars in front of him that he prangs into them. Then half way through the season your main sponsor reneges on payments and you owe millions and millions to your staff and supplier. Another two races and your supplier cries "enough" and impounds your car. Tallgoose becomes Cooked Goose.
And you are poorer, sadder, but many, many times wiser as you depart F1 and heads south with the other migratory geese.

[jso1985]

I know it doesn't go much along with F1's current situation(economical and politcal) but for the last 40 years, F1 has been pretty much about building your own car. and I like it, I'd prefer to have no manufacturer teams but hey that's dreaming to far...
If wannabe teams can't afford that they should go to IndyCars or GP2...
If costumer cars would be allowed, we could end up with a sort of spec-series where everyone uses either the McLaren or the Ferrari car

[Valve Bounce]

I know it doesn't go much along with F1's current situation(economical and politcal) but for the last 40 years, F1 has been pretty much about building your own car. and I like it, I'd prefer to have no manufacturer teams but hey that's dreaming to far...
If wannabe teams can't afford that they should go to IndyCars or GP2...
If costumer cars would be allowed, we could end up with a sort of spec-series where everyone uses either the McLaren or the Ferrari car

Things can change rapidly with the current economical crisis. I can't tell, and who can, whether sponsors will start pulling out of F1 as the costs become unsupportable. Ford wants 9 billion to survive in the States, and GM is asking for 18 billion from their Government. Starting an F1 team on a wing and a prayer, on a shoestring and the goodwill of one of the current teams and scoring zero points using a rookie driver in a second hand car may not be the most attractive proposition for a potential sponsor. Yep!! going to GP2 or Indycars might be the better proposition. Not to mention if Bernie and/or Max's successor might change their mind (what there is of it) and the rules ad hoc is far from attractive. If I had zillions to burn, I'd rather give it to the Salvos where it could do some good, than to try to start another private team which is doomed to failure, bankruptcy, and ruination.

[Tallgeese]

I know it doesn't go much along with F1's current situation(economical and politcal) but for the last 40 years, F1 has been pretty much about building your own car. and I like it, I'd prefer to have no manufacturer teams but hey that's dreaming to far...
If wannabe teams can't afford that they should go to IndyCars or GP2...
If costumer cars would be allowed, we could end up with a sort of spec-series where everyone uses either the McLaren or the Ferrari car

The issue isn't about running it on a continious basis. The constructor must commit to eventually designing their own chassis, & in my opinion F1 has always been about R&D. Of course, when will everybody realise that the current conditions make it difficult for new entrants to catch up on time & money.

By limiting them to a year-old model they'll fall mid-way through the field, & possibly more as they do not have the best drivers.

OK!! so we have team Tallgoose, since you are only allowed to run one car, one second hand car driven by a rookie in races where you can't score championship points. Your rookie driver brings up the rear of the grid (we are assuming that Honda finally gets their cars off the back row). He finishes last in half his races - the other half, he is so desperate to get ahead of the cars in front of him that he prangs into them. Then half way through the season your main sponsor reneges on payments and you owe millions and millions to your staff and supplier. Another two races and your supplier cries "enough" and impounds your car. Tallgoose becomes Cooked Goose.
And you are poorer, sadder, but many, many times wiser as you depart F1 and heads south with the other migratory geese.

Nah. Depends how one calculates it.

If I was a multi-millionare, & had sponsorship & the synergy to make it happen I would. Just because I have the facilities to build a chassis doesn't mean that I have one that win championships or challenge for points. My plan would be to buy a proven design (though a year old) from a leading manufacturer, & to attempt to get good drivers who can coax the most of it. The only 'up-to-date' item is the drivetrain.

Driver-wise I'd opt for somebody with experience & a good record. For drivers, at the start of 2008 I'd probably try to get Tiago Monterio & Ricardo Zonta & possibly Ralf Schumacher to join in the team as the first two are solid racers & have at least one season behind them. R.Schumacher, better than nothing but hey it's not like a team starting from a piece of paper & with debutant (rookie) racers.

As such if I picked a full collaboration with McLaren-Mercedes, my 2008 car would be their 2007 edition, the MP4-22 with the latest engine enhancements, & Standard ECU fitted & so on. The idea is that we can build a car from a blueprint, & are assisted in its development. In retrospect it is much more capable than the car that debuted in Melbourne in 2007, but is still way behind the pack. Whether we can add (say) forward wings (horns) or a shark-fin or whatever isn't what collaboration is about. I believe that our advisors from McLaren-Mercedes may suggest where we pour money.

I estimate that differences with the latest MP4-23, & of course driver ability (as all three would be less rated than Hamilton or Kovy) would be about 1.5 - 2 seconds per lap, effectively putting us at the back of the grid, but slightly ahead of the backmarkers. This isn't surprising, but I would say that as time goes on we'll gradually build on our experience. You can't expect to win races or score too many points (if any) in your first year! Still for us it's about steepening the learning curve.

Assuming regulations did not change in 2008 I may opt to continue our own development using the MP4-22 as our basis & continue to use a Mercedes driver-train for the car, or (failing that) could look for an alternative powerplant. My second choice would be Ferrari, BMW or even Renault.

[Valve Bounce]

................go to Honda thread. There's a team, possibly coming on line, for free. Go for it!!

[Tallgeese]

................go to Honda thread. There's a team, possibly coming on line, for free. Go for it!!

I'm not a multi-millionare/billionare, but if I did buy in I'd rather acquire my own facilities & a test-track (based on complex string) & MOST OF ALL synergy in the team. I'm not sure whether it'd be a 'British Team' or a 'Jordanian Team' but it ultimately depends on where we're based & staff composition. It's not just about equipment & facilities, it's about the synergy of teamwork!

The trouble with Toyota or Honda is that they are not really Japanese teams. With the exception of the engine they are based in Europe (Germany & the UK respectively) & are largely manned by non-Japanese. Yes, one could argue that Ferrari hiring Brits doesn't make it any less Italian, but most of the staff (from top to bottom) are based in Italy & are Italians. Scuderia Ferrari is a hertiage, Toyota or Honda are businesses.