Is the open wheel world better off than it was a year ago?

[garyshell]

Track attendance was up, over all, as was TV viewership.

?

So what is your question Ken? Are you disputing that overall the attendance and TV viewership was up from 2007? There are specific instance of it being down, for sure. But cummulative, overall totals do appear to have it up. As I said, it was not by a larger amount. But still up, not down or level.

Gary

[SarahFan]

So what is your question Ken? Are you disputing that overall the attendance and TV viewership was up from 2007? There are specific instance of it being down, for sure. But cummulative, overall totals do appear to have it up. As I said, it was not by a larger amount. But still up, not down or level.

Gary

10 races saw a decline in TV ratings......and this year saw plays right out of the CC playbook.....3 day attendance #'s trumpeted...announced sellouts and capacity crowds at events with 1/2 full grandstands etc etc..

attandance was flat.... TV down

[Miatanut]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Champcar guys who say "no" never knew what it was like before the split?

I was going to stay away from this discussion, but this has drawn me in. Like a moth to a flame. Maybe I'm not a ChampCar guy. In its last year I thought they should shoot that lame horse and put it out of its misery. For the last several years I felt reunification was necessary because the sport would continue to decline as long as the split was going on, but Tony always had his 'my way or the highway' approach (which Surfers and Las Vegas are the most recent to experience) which made it difficult for anybody to do a deal with him.

In any case, I knew what it was like before the split. I knew what it was like before CART. By mid-70's I had figured out that USAC was IMS management's puppet and grown to dislike their approach. I thought CART was a fabulous idea from when the White Paper first became public. There was no doubt in my mind it was the right thing for the sport. It was like another Declaration of Independence. This bunch of team owners were going to take on the powerful USAC. They won their revolutionary war in one year flat! Their idea was so clearly better. It came as no surprise to me when the sport flourished under that structure.

As far as whether the open wheel world is better off than it was a year ago, I would have to say F1 is the best it's been in years and with the introduction of kinetic energy recovery, next year will be even more interesting. Thank God, because in the United States, the answer is No. We continue to see the same declines in the sport even though there is now only one series. The best the current series management can do is copy parts of the CART and CCWS play books.

If you go to motorsport.com photos, you will see most venues experienced a decline in attendance. The TV ratings have been a mixed bag. I don't think it's possible to demonstrate and average increase. With no competition, there SHOULD be an average increase. More teams? DUH! They had no time to do anything else, unless they wanted to suspend operations (which Forsythe did). For next year, I will be surprised to see if some teams don't go to ALMS or GrandAm. The true test on team count will be next year.

Things will be better when the people with gasoline running in their veins are running the sport, if that should ever happen again. If it doesn't happen, we will continue to see the sport putzing along at a fraction of its former glory.

Too bad.

[Lousada]

This is what I found:

IRL 2008 TV Ratings
Ovals
Homestead .8
Motegi .23
Kansas .66
Indy 4.5
Milwaukee .6
Texas .8
Iowa 1.1
Richmond .9
Nashville .5
Kentucky .43
Chicago .8


Street/Road Circuits
St Pete .4
(Long Beach .8)
Watkins Glen 1.0
Mid Ohio 1.3
Edmonton (can't find ratings)
Sonoma .41
Belle Isle .9

Average with Indy: .95
Average without Indy: .72
Averages include Long Beach and exclude Edmonton.

Perhaps someone can put them next to last years rating.

[maccadownunder]

I haven't commented about this gear much of late. With Surfers coming up I am not really excited after the equipment etc we had last year and what is being provided this year with no points at stake and downgrade in HP and technology....

To be honest I don't know where we stand. I haven't watched a race this year (although I tried) I miss the Champcar product from last year. Although I see the benefits of the merge, I wish it had been done a better way. IE Selecting the best of each series rather than what (I personally see as ) a capitulation by Champcar.

I think this question will probably have an answer based upon which side of the fence you stood prior to the "merge". I myself think we have gone backwards within the last 12 months of AOWR. The base however gives us a chance to get back to what everybody envied only a few years back now.

It will take a long time and a lot of new people to get the series and the common feeling amongst fans that things are heading in the right direction.

It can be done. And I hope for the sport overall it does get done. It is going to take some time and a lot of buried hatchets.

[Bob Riebe]

Ok, that begs the next question... Care to elaborate?

In all honesty, I can't see how it could be any more worse off than it was last year. Or where it looked like it would be the first week of Feb this year. And I make that same observation about BOTH series. They were both headed for the dumper.

Gary

Rather than simple guide-lines between which the racers must operate, a sanction is trying to edict what to build and how to build it.

It is more quasi-spec. which works fine for week-end SCCA or amateur racers but a formula that IS now turng most forms of professional racing into a farce driven by greed and arrogance.

[DBell]

Rather than simple guide-lines between which the racers must operate, a sanction is trying to edict what to build and how to build it.

It is more quasi-spec. which works fine for week-end SCCA or amateur racers but a formula that IS now turng most forms of professional racing into a farce driven by greed and arrogance.

Good Post.

[garyshell]

Ok, that begs the next question... Care to elaborate?

In all honesty, I can't see how it could be any more worse off than it was last year. Or where it looked like it would be the first week of Feb this year. And I make that same observation about BOTH series. They were both headed for the dumper.

Gary

Rather than simple guide-lines between which the racers must operate, a sanction is trying to edict what to build and how to build it.

It is more quasi-spec. which works fine for week-end SCCA or amateur racers but a formula that IS now turng most forms of professional racing into a farce driven by greed and arrogance.

So how the hell does that make it any more worse off than last year when we had two competing series with PRECISELY the same scenario you describe, but with each individual series having fewer drivers, poorer attendance and lower TV ratings. I still don't see how we are ANY worse off.

Look I am not saying we have made huge strides, clearly we haven't. I think it is just baby steps. But I think all this "we are worse off" talk, is just that... talk. I don't see a case being made at all.

Gary

[SarahFan]

So how the hell does that make it any more worse off than last year when we had two competing series with PRECISELY the same scenario you describe, but with each individual series having fewer drivers, poorer attendance and lower TV ratings. I still don't see how we are ANY worse off.

Look I am not saying we have made huge strides, clearly we haven't. I think it is just baby steps. But I think all this "we are worse off" talk, is just that... talk. I don't see a case being made at all.

Gary

attendance is flat and ratings down

[HiWayStar]

Champ Car's big turnaround, which should have happened last year, didn't. Sponsorship woes continued; the tv package with ESPN turned out to be a bad joke. Folding their tent & merging into IndyCar was unfortunately inevitable, unless the principals wanted to continue to pump millions into a (seemingly) hopeless cause.

But losing Champ Car did not seem to do AOWR any good, either. Even with 1 series, the old problems continue. The IRL is a boring series, period (IMO)... THe cars are ugly, they sound horrible, & their venues, while getting slowly better over the years, still suck, compared to Champ Car's. Most distressing is seeing that the 2009 IndyCar schedule still has not incorporated Road America or Cleveland. Instead we have the same collection of generic ISC 1.5 mi ovals, barren wastelands like Sonoma, & immortal classics like Belle Isle.

At least, last year, there was still some hope that AOWR would somehow find some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. Now, well, let's just say I'm not holding my breath...