Fred Nation lays egg at Motor Industry Association conference

[FormerFF]

I assume you're talking about the current fuel. Corn derived ethanol is far from a solution to declining natural resources, since it requires a higher energy input to produce than it yields.

Not that it really matters, but the current consensus is that corn-based ethanol production has about a 15% energy gain - that is, if you put in six units of petroleum energy in and you get about seven units out. Considering the amount of cropland and fertilizer needed, your conclusion that it is not a solution is 100% correct. The only biofuel that shows real promise would be an algae based biodiesel, and that's totally in the theory stage right now.

[Chris R]

Sure. Why didn't the IRL use this as an opportunity to at least say what general concepts they would like to see in the coming years in the form of technology come into the sport. Whether it be a KERS system, hybrid engines or whatever, show that someone in the series is thinking of a long term concept of how the IRL will develop.

There is very little evidence that I've seen that suggest the IRL has a big picture plan on how they will make the series attractive to auto manufacturers. Going by current TV ratings and a downgraded TV package for the future, marketing value doesn't seem to be that attractive of an option at the moment. So it has to be something else to get a company like BMW, for example, motivated to make the financial commitment to join. Relevancy is becoming a large looming question mark for all of auto racing as the world changes. Some series like ALMS,LMS and F1 are addressing this issue. The IRL needs to at least show it's thinking about it. To me, the IRL going to a conference like this and putting out the information it did says they have no long term direction. For a the IRL, a series that desperately needs a couple of manufacturers to join in 2 years, this was a needlessly wasted opportunity. They can't afford this. They have to be on the ball at every opportunity to convince companies that this series is worth investing in.

I agree with your concerns - but I am not sure the IRL needs to or can go as radical as ALMS - for one thing the ovals will not lend themselves to some of the technology and for another, I think the IRL is far too weak to demand a high level of investment in new technology from anyone - if they do a new formula and nobody comes to play they are absolutely finished... If ALMS creates a "green" niche and it falls on its face they can do what sports car racing always does when the manufacturers bolt - fall back on the GT series or older "prototypes" and muddle through a couple of seasons before they get it together again....

Like I said, I totally agree with your concerns and with the fact that the IRL really missed a good opportunity to say something positive - even if it was spun in a different direction - but I am not convinced the ALMS plan is the right one for the IRL

I would also like to note that I am not as big of a fan of manufacturer involvement as many people are - I think the manufacturers are a big reason why AOWR is in such dire straits now anyway teams got too used to big manufacturer subsidies and tobacco money and forgot how to run a team in a competitive business environment..... When those sources of funding dried up it really exacerbated the whole split...

[pits4me]

Agreed, Chris. The story itself seems to be a left-handed ootch to competitors to play with ALMS rather than the IRL...if that was, it's even off-topic, so how far off topic can we tell that ANYONE went.

No. It was an invitation for series to share their strategic goals as they relate to new fuel technology, etc. Innovation is negligable when it comes to the IRL -- which explains why Nation was off point.

Lord Drayson is very passionate about E85 fuel and the need to develop a compromise between food and energy lobbyists. Laying down a foundation to seek and develop ethanol/methanol fuels from sources other than edible grain would have gone a long way to bringing visibility where it belongs.

The perception that the ICS runs 100% ethanol "as the cool thing to do" versus 100% methanol which has been the mainstay of US open wheel needs some explanation.

[garyshell]

Going by current TV ratings and a downgraded TV package for the future, marketing value doesn't seem to be that attractive of an option at the moment.

Characterizing it as a "downgrade" is a bit premature don't you think? "Questionable" might be a more precise. I am not excited about it since Time Warner Cable here doesn't carry it, but I am not ready to say it is a downgrade from the pathetic performance from ESPN and ABC.

Gary

[Chris R]

Agreed, Chris. The story itself seems to be a left-handed ootch to competitors to play with ALMS rather than the IRL...if that was, it's even off-topic, so how far off topic can we tell that ANYONE went.

I didn't even get that out of it - just that Nation did what most politicos do when they don't have anything to say on a specific topic - they talk about something else and hope nobody notices.....

I think the IRL and ALMS are taking divergent paths that offer different types of competitors different advantages and also offer some a chance to diversify so as to isolate themselves a little better from the vagaries of business.... I would imagine when teams have two programs the more profitable one supports the other and overtime they go back and forth between which is more profitable....

[garyshell]

Not that it really matters, but the current consensus is that corn-based ethanol production has about a 15% energy gain - that is, if you put in six units of petroleum energy in and you get about seven units out. Considering the amount of cropland and fertilizer needed, your conclusion that it is not a solution is 100% correct. The only biofuel that shows real promise would be an algae based biodiesel, and that's totally in the theory stage right now.

And some of the biomass efforts arround switchgrass and other non crop, "weed like" plants.

Gary

[pits4me]

Not to address Spanish Language telecasts on VHF/UHF terrestrial stations is even more pathetic Gary.

The only biofuel that shows real promise would be an algae based biodiesel, and that's totally in the theory stage right now.

The Bio-Medical field has been working on technology transfer of engineered enzymes for years. Only recently has there been heightened interest to apply it to creating methanol out of garbage economically.

[Rex Monaco]

Originally Posted by Rex Monaco
The official banner of the conference was:

“Fuel economy and energy efficiency: How racing can deliver innovative solutions…fast!”

I am anxious to hear how a radical chassis will deliver an innovative solution to the energy efficiency. ....

I didn't post that at all. Who'd you get that quote from?

[indycool]

Well, the IRL is the only series using ethanol, which can be argued about all day (and is in high quarters) and it's meeting with manufacturers for future specs for its sport and a conclusion can certainly be drawn that manufacturers will be wanting to work on fuel conservation and that can be a part of the new specs. That's reasonable enough, and Nation apparently said so, on the topic itself. On the rest off topic that ALMS chose to put on its website, Indycars race on ovals, like at Indianapolis, from which the term Indycars come from, and evolutionary rather than revolutionary tends to indicate that the IRL isn't going to try some radical deal that could sink the series. Seems credible to me.

[Rex Monaco]

Why am I arguing with myself? Only the editor knows!!!

Nevermind. I see.