IndyCar to go to turbos in 2011

[Alfa Fan]

Kind of off-topic, but if someone wanted to use a Panoz IRL chassis right now, would it be allowed?

No. The Panoz chassis is only eligible for the Indy 500, and I'm not even sure it will be eligible for that in 2009.

[fan-veteran]

So V6? I cannot see such a turbo engine for IRL being more than 2.5L. And what rpms, maybe somewhere 10k-11k (as is now). The power limit for speed/safety issues on ovals was proved to be around 700-720 bhp. For road and street courses of course power can be increased to something like 800 bhp or even more without speeds reaching somekind of dangerous levels.

[DBell]

Why not make the engine design more open for the builders? Instead of saying it has to be a V6, just give a displacement limit and a cylinder limit and let the manufacturers decide what kind of engine they want to build.

[Chaparral66]

The IRL claimed there were 12 engine related participants and those are the ones that were named. If Ford had a rep there, it was not reported. For whatever reason, Ford doesn't seem to have any interest in getting back into AOWR. It may have to do with Ford's current financial state. More likely it has to do with the lack of return for the necessary investment. Plus, the higher ups at Ford still seem to have an issue with Honda's will to win at all costs.

As for Dan Davis, he announced his retirement as Director of Ford Racing several months ago. He left a few weeks ago and was replaced by another Ford vet by the name of Brian Wolfe. I know that Mazda's racing operations and budget are separate from Ford's, and I don't know what information might have passed between them.

Of course, I don't know who is going to do what going forward. But given GM's recent budget cutbacks in other racing programs, I don't look for them to do anything in the IRL. Nissan and Toyota didn't attend the conference, and Toyota seems to have a been there done that outlook, once they leave a series (IMSA, Le Mans, WRC, CART). Volkswagen and Audi were listed separately, but are under the same ownership umbrella. If anything, it will be one or the other. Speedway Engines is way out of its league with the named group. Ilmor is already in the game with Honda. AER, Cosworth and Judd will likely only build engines if someone badges. Depending on what happens with the rumored Chrysler deal, Fiat hasn't established a complete plan of action for North America, as far as I know. Mazda is a good maybe. But I don't see Mazda having the money to really compete with Honda or any major manufacturer. BMW is probably the most legit prospective manufacturer out of the named group. They also have a great marketing arm.

Unlike the spin that took place with the Versus TV deal, if the IRL happened to get BMW and/or Audi, to go along with Honda (committed through 2013, as I understand it), that would be considered a legitimate homerun, IMO. Not only would those companies bring about an air of legitimacy, but they also would bring along some much needed sponsorships (that they would likely activate).

Here's my wild azz guess: a chassis that will closely resemble the DP-01 (more the DP-01 or the old Lola/Reynard than the current Dallara/Panoz) and a 3.0 liter +/- turbo V-6 that will put out between 700-750hp. The current IRL package has a horsepower/weight ratio that's almost identical to the GP2 package (depending on where the data comes from, GP2 seems to have a slight hp/weight advantage). I'd say the IRL would want to improve on that, play with the aero and make the series more of a talent contest, rather than a setup/foot-to-the-floor contest, at least on ovals.

I hadn't heard that Dan Davis retired, thanks for the 411 on that, Jag. Davis did a great job during his time there, hopefully he'll remain as a consultant.

I think for a manufacturer to be viable in coming on board they should be selling cars here in the US. Not sure why Fiat would go for it. But BMW could benefit, as well as Audi (more than VW, I think). it would be nice to have a variety of world manufacturers to spice it up a bit, with at least one domestic manf.

[SportscarBruce]

Why not make the engine design more open for the builders? Instead of saying it has to be a V6, just give a displacement limit and a cylinder limit and let the manufacturers decide what kind of engine they want to build.

Exactamundo

[Jag_Warrior]

So V6? I cannot see such a turbo engine for IRL being more than 2.5L. And what rpms, maybe somewhere 10k-11k (as is now). The power limit for speed/safety issues on ovals was proved to be around 700-720 bhp. For road and street courses of course power can be increased to something like 800 bhp or even more without speeds reaching somekind of dangerous levels.

Years ago, a fellow from Cosworth posted here every now and again. Other than him, the only other person who I believe could (reliably) address that would be Hoop98. Certainly there have been small displacement, race bred turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines in the past that could easily hit 700-800hp. In the case of the BMW and TAG-Porsche F1 units of the 80's, 700-800hp would have been nothing special. I don't know what boost levels they ran, but I know the fuel mixtures were exotic, to say the least. Assuming they stay with ethanol, what size V-6, spinning how fast, with how much boost would be necessary to get that 700-800hp???

I think what the IRL is going to have to balance is performance vs. cost. For about $15 million per 2 car team per season, they could run F1 spec engines (based on some Cosworth numbers from a couple of seasons ago). We all know that's not realistic for the IRL. So what is? I don't know... something close to the million or so that they have now? Don't know. And if you allow the manufacturers to subsidize teams with discounted engines, what happens if & when a manufacturer leaves? What happens if they only want to subsidize certain teams and not others? What happens if the top manufacturer only wants to supply the top (or certain) teams? For whatever reason, the IRL chose to follow CART's engine lease path. Depending on who and how many sign on, it'll be interesting to see how this issue is dealt with too.

[Jag_Warrior]

I hadn't heard that Dan Davis retired, thanks for the 411 on that, Jag. Davis did a great job during his time there, hopefully he'll remain as a consultant.

I think for a manufacturer to be viable in coming on board they should be selling cars here in the US. Not sure why Fiat would go for it. But BMW could benefit, as well as Audi (more than VW, I think). it would be nice to have a variety of world manufacturers to spice it up a bit, with at least one domestic manf.

I'm not sure what Davis' future plans are. I agree, he did a very good job while heading up Ford Racing. I never met him but I've not heard anyone at Ford say a bad word about him. He (and Ford) put up with a lot of crap from Tony George, CART and Champ Car over the years. It's interesting that both he and Robert Clarke retired within a month of each other. Their jobs must have been like working with people set on committing suicide at every turn.

Anyway, Fiat's interest would likely revolve around the Alfa Romeo brand, which is supposed to be making a return to North America in 2010 or so. Fiat Group is already here with Ferrari and Maserati. I've heard BMW linked to the Fiat Auto/Alfa return. I've also heard Chrysler linked to that return. Who knows?

In global automotive, several interesting things are taking place. Porsche's takeover of VW/Audi should soon be complete. How that might affect racing programs at either concern is unknown. At the same time, VW wants more share in the U.S. and is expanding its presence in North America by building a plant in Tennessee. By 2011, one (or more) of the Big 3 will either be much smaller than now... or dead. That should affect NASCAR more than the IRL... but who knows what the fallout might be?

[Rex Monaco]

Why not make the engine design more open for the builders? Instead of saying it has to be a V6, just give a displacement limit and a cylinder limit and let the manufacturers decide what kind of engine they want to build.

+1

[fan-veteran]

Who will pay that diversity?

[bblocker68]

V6 Turbo's? WooHoo, the Buick is making a comeback Someone get John Menard on the phone. He loved those things!!