IndyCar to go to turbos in 2011

[Chaparral66]

The Indy Star is reporting that IndyCar is going to turbos in 3 years. That apparantly was the consensus at the first roundtable at IMS earlier this year. They're going to have another closed door session later this year. The chice right now would be between 4 cyl. or 6 cyl. The first question in my mind is did Ford go to the first round table, and since they are starting to develop more fuel efficient turbos for their street cars, does this give them an opportunity to get back in the open wheel game, maybe work with Cosworth again?

link: click on it or cut and paste it
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...nletter-sports

[Champcar4life]

The Indy Star is reporting that IndyCar is going to turbos in 3 years. That apparantly was the consensus at the first roundtable at IMS earlier this year. They're going to have another closed door session later this year. The chice right now would be between 4 cyl. or 6 cyl. The first question in my mind is did Ford go to the first round table, and since they are starting to develop more fuel efficient turbos for their street cars, does this give them an opportunity to get back in the open wheel game, maybe work with Cosworth again?

link: click on it or cut and paste it
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...nletter-sports

I read that read the report myself and it seem in a few years the IRL won't even look like what it starting out be an all oval series, looking more and more like CART every day, which to me is a good thing. I think a production base V-6 in the 3.2-3.8 liter range is a good starting point.

[Jag_Warrior]

Mazda (Ford controlled, but a separate motorsports budget and director) and Cosworth representatives attended the round table. Ford sent no one and as far as I know, has expressed no interest in returning to AOWR. The list I saw included the two just mentioned, along with AER, Judd, Ilmor, Speedway Engines, Honda, Volkswagen, Audi (listed separately, but they are under the same ownership), BMW, Chevrolet and Fiat (though some scribes used the Ferrari name... to draw more attention?)

There was misinformation on Fiat = Ferrari. While reps from Fiat Auto attended, that division of the Fiat Group is not affiliated with Ferrari. Ferrari is (partially) owned by Fiat Group, not Fiat Auto. Any interest from Fiat Auto would likely be for Alfa Romeo, due to make another try in N.A. soon. Or maybe something else. The past two times I've been in Auburn Hills, there have been slick dressed gentlemen with Italian accents. Either Nardelli is trying to get in touch with his Italian roots or maybe Fiat Auto and Chrysler are moving forward with the rumored joint venture.

But back to Chaparral66's point... yes, it appears that the turbo option has the most support among prospective manufacturers. With most manufacturers now exploring turbo options to increase fuel efficiency, while maintaining a certain level of engine performance, it does make sense, IMO.

[pitwall3]

I can see it now. The IRL holding a press conference in the off season to announce the selection of the Panoz DPO1 as the Car of the future (COF) with turbos, optional tires with standing starts at all road/street. Champ Car 2 anyone.

[Chaparral66]

Mazda (Ford controlled, but a separate motorsports budget and director) and Cosworth representatives attended the round table. Ford sent no one and as far as I know, has expressed no interest in returning to AOWR. The list I saw included the two just mentioned, along with AER, Judd, Ilmor, Speedway Engines, Honda, Volkswagen, Audi (listed separately, but they are under the same ownership), BMW, Chevrolet and Fiat (though some scribes used the Ferrari name... to draw more attention?)

There was misinformation on Fiat = Ferrari. While reps from Fiat Auto attended, that division of the Fiat Group is not affiliated with Ferrari. Ferrari is (partially) owned by Fiat Group, not Fiat Auto. Any interest from Fiat Auto would likely be for Alfa Romeo, due to make another try in N.A. soon. Or maybe something else. The past two times I've been in Auburn Hills, there have been slick dressed gentlemen with Italian accents. Either Nardelli is trying to get in touch with his Italian roots or maybe Fiat Auto and Chrysler are moving forward with the rumored joint venture.

But back to Chaparral66's point... yes, it appears that the turbo option has the most support among prospective manufacturers. With most manufacturers now exploring turbo options to increase fuel efficiency, while maintaining a certain level of engine performance, it does make sense, IMO.

I agree. You know, if I were cynical, especially in regards to pitwall3's point, I might say that it remains an open question who "won the open wheel war"; Maybe TG the man won over The Three Amigos in their battle, but the CART/Champ Car concept, in terms of tech specs, is winning the long term debate. But that would be cynical and I am not that. I really do think that what we are seeing is a mesh of different ideas coming together and producing a product that might be appealing to the highest number of open wheel fans. If at some point they can get Road America and Cleveland, and perhaps even Michigan and Fontana, all back into the fold, right around the time of the turbo engines are introduced, that would be a great time for the fans we lost to things like NASCAR to take a second look at AOWR. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

Jag, I take you at your word that Ford was not at the round table (a shame) but I'll bet you that Dan Davis at Ford Racing asked his Mazda counterpart to give him the full 411 on the meeting to see if there was anything they might look at down the road.

[Miatanut]

I agree. You know, if I were cynical, especially in regards to pitwall3's point, I might say that it remains an open question who "won the open wheel war"; Maybe TG the man won over The Three Amigos in their battle, but the CART/Champ Car concept, in terms of tech specs, is winning the long term debate. But that would be cynical and I am not that.

I don't think that's being cynical. That's just what has happened. It leaves us in a very interesting time because the traditional CART fanbase is upset because Tony won the war, and the traditional IRL fanbase is upset because Tony has converted the IRL into a schedule that looks just like the old CART schedule, and other changes are making it look more like CCWS.

Adopting turbos does not in any way mean making it like CART or CCWS. The field of 33 was full of turbo Offy's years before CART was even an idea. CART simply adopted USAC's specs.

[F1boat]

I don't know what to say, but of Indy Car turns into a CCWS-like series I will stop watching it. If it is like CART, it's cool, amazing, but I want more ovals, like in current IRL and less street courses. I am sorry but Toronto, Belle Isle etc are simply NOT like Valencia or Monte Carlo. Only Long Beach is cool.
So if they make a series which mixes the best from IRL and CART, amazing, great. If they make a GP2-clone like the CCWS, with majority of street courses, standing starts, GP2-like cars and European unknown drivers - it's over for me.

I like the IRL as it is now. And the CART as it was in the 90-ies. The original IRL and the CCWS was extremes. I like neither. Yet I can say that the original IRL was at least distinguished, different. CCWS was like GP 2.
And I hate European junior formula racing.

[Jag_Warrior]

Jag, I take you at your word that Ford was not at the round table (a shame) but I'll bet you that Dan Davis at Ford Racing asked his Mazda counterpart to give him the full 411 on the meeting to see if there was anything they might look at down the road.

The IRL claimed there were 12 engine related participants and those are the ones that were named. If Ford had a rep there, it was not reported. For whatever reason, Ford doesn't seem to have any interest in getting back into AOWR. It may have to do with Ford's current financial state. More likely it has to do with the lack of return for the necessary investment. Plus, the higher ups at Ford still seem to have an issue with Honda's will to win at all costs.

As for Dan Davis, he announced his retirement as Director of Ford Racing several months ago. He left a few weeks ago and was replaced by another Ford vet by the name of Brian Wolfe. I know that Mazda's racing operations and budget are separate from Ford's, and I don't know what information might have passed between them.

Of course, I don't know who is going to do what going forward. But given GM's recent budget cutbacks in other racing programs, I don't look for them to do anything in the IRL. Nissan and Toyota didn't attend the conference, and Toyota seems to have a been there done that outlook, once they leave a series (IMSA, Le Mans, WRC, CART). Volkswagen and Audi were listed separately, but are under the same ownership umbrella. If anything, it will be one or the other. Speedway Engines is way out of its league with the named group. Ilmor is already in the game with Honda. AER, Cosworth and Judd will likely only build engines if someone badges. Depending on what happens with the rumored Chrysler deal, Fiat hasn't established a complete plan of action for North America, as far as I know. Mazda is a good maybe. But I don't see Mazda having the money to really compete with Honda or any major manufacturer. BMW is probably the most legit prospective manufacturer out of the named group. They also have a great marketing arm.

Unlike the spin that took place with the Versus TV deal, if the IRL happened to get BMW and/or Audi, to go along with Honda (committed through 2013, as I understand it), that would be considered a legitimate homerun, IMO. Not only would those companies bring about an air of legitimacy, but they also would bring along some much needed sponsorships (that they would likely activate).

Here's my wild azz guess: a chassis that will closely resemble the DP-01 (more the DP-01 or the old Lola/Reynard than the current Dallara/Panoz) and a 3.0 liter +/- turbo V-6 that will put out between 700-750hp. The current IRL package has a horsepower/weight ratio that's almost identical to the GP2 package (depending on where the data comes from, GP2 seems to have a slight hp/weight advantage). I'd say the IRL would want to improve on that, play with the aero and make the series more of a talent contest, rather than a setup/foot-to-the-floor contest, at least on ovals.

[dataman1]

My take is based upon some older statements from Barnard in that he is very happy with Dallara. When the turbo spec is decided then Dallara can still build a new chassis to fit the engine decision.

As I've stated in the past, the ICS needs to go in the same direction as the public passenger car manufacturers wish to go. If that is a dual tubo 4 cylinder, a single turbo or a TDI it does not matter. If the ICS wants their money, it has to be worth something to them. That means some of us will be happy and some not but the series will be richer and stronger.

[Jag_Warrior]

Kind of off-topic, but if someone wanted to use a Panoz IRL chassis right now, would it be allowed?