Rally History (part III)

Thank you again Januszsz

And thank you also Jirka RK ,

Can either of you provide me with any source of these 1976 Rallye de Lugano Results ?

I know they are correct - but I am needing to prove them to someone beyond any refute.

As the results for this rallye in 1976 (as far as I can tell ) was the differance for the end result of the National Rallye Championship of CH for 1976 !

At their website's Palmares (archives) webpage :

http://www.swissrally.ch/archives/ (go to 1976)


They not only list Andre Savary/ Jean-Robert Corthay as 1st place finishers of this rallye ??? (which in reality - it seems that Savary / Corthay were not even in the top 10 !).

The listed finishes (on THEIR website) of :

3rd - Carl-Ludwig Locher/Ueli Krebs

4th - Raymond Balmer/Michel Roetlisberger

5th - Eros Medici/Claudio Sannitz

Do not seem correct either as (even if they are ONLY listing the Swiss entrant results in their own National Championship series).

In actuality , it looks like Medici /Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finisher (in their CH Championship).

As again (like Savary) Balmer or Locher , in reality, were not even in top 10 finishers either !!.
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But again (it looks to me) that even more critical is their mistake between finisher #1 & #2 of this rallye .

For the Correct finish of Carron at 1st overall (besides just first of their Swiss Entrants).

Should have made him the actual 1976 CH National Rallye Champion and not Savary ! (as they have listed)

And it would probably also change the final positions of #2 - 5 of this National Championship Series.
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The first overall of finish of Carron agree's not only my other sourced results :


http://www.bilhistorie.no/ (hit "bilsport" at top - then below "1976")


Lugano: Jean-Marie Carron/Sclair – Porsche Carrera RS (actually Schaer)
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But I was also told through a friend of J-M. Carron DIRECTLY - that he was the overall winner of this rallye.

AND long ago I was told he was a consecutive years CH National Rallye Champion (in the mid 70's)

So these fact's also correlate there also.

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So i would very much appreciate Irrefutable evidence of this 1976 lugano results (magazine or newspaper reports ).


PS - again , I am also looking to verify top overall finishers of the 1976 333 Minuti.

I am trying to figure out if j-m. Carron was first overall . Or just first of the Swiss.

From Carron himself - he said first overall (i believe he meant overall period - not just of the Swiss , but i was not there to clarify) .

Thus I am searching for listings or anyones knoledge of Top overall 1976 333 Minuti results.

Because also at:

http://www.bilhistorie.no/ (hit "bilsport" at top - then below "1976")

this result for 1976 333 Minuti is listed :

Winner - 333 Minuti: Adartico Vudafieri/Bonaga – Lancia Stratos HF ????
If anyone can help - please do.

[januszsz]

In my opinion it is possible that only part of Lugano Rally (first day? or first leg) was valid for national championship and just only Swiss drivers were to score points. Results sent by Jirka are the final result of etire international (ERC) rally. I can imagine that Savary was the best Swiss after day 1 then retired next day.
That situation was common during Poland Rally. In 60's only first day was valid for Polish Rally Championship and in 70's and 80's only first day was valid for Peace & Friendship Cup. So why not in Switerland?
It is just only a suggestion. I don't know the truth in fact.
Regards
Janusz

Note-

I was checking to see if anyone replied to my continued post (bored, I guess).

And I noticed a statement I could clarify (since it will not allow me to edit above ?)
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Although these (1976 Lugano) correct results WOULD re-shuffle the top 5 finshers of the 1976 CH Rally Championship series overall.

in this statement :

"In actuality , it looks like Medici /Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finisher (in their CH Championship)."

I MEANT - it looks like Medici/Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finsher of THIS RALLY (in their 1976 Championship series).

Thx for the theoritic possibility Januszsz (seems you slipped in there while i was clarifying),

Quite interesting. If anyone knows more and can validate or invalidate - i am trying to get to end truth .

If so , and THAT scoring system is true. Seems more than a bit of crock - give the win (points) to someone who DNF'ed , and second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss.

But overall winner of the Rallye !

(Thought i lost the above post while i was typing - to complete)


Thx for the Theoritic possibility Januszsz,

If anyone knows more (or for certain) - please chime in . I am trying to get to the end truth (i don't speak french - so trying other sources before speaking to CH).

If the above mentioned scoring system possibility is correct . Seems like more than a bit of crock to me.

Give the win (points) to the person who DNF'ed , and the second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss.

But the FINAL overall winner period !

Especially when this result would end up giving the Championship to the DNF'er instead of the overall winner of this event of the Championship series ?

To me that is just too bizzarre.

PS - Januszsz , do you have the final overall results in print from a newspaper or periodical ?

[januszsz]

I have tyop 6 of Lugano Rally '76 in a print version (a press cut of polish daily newspaper). If you need it I can find it and scann.
About your astonishment because of "Give the win (points) to the person who DNF'ed , and the second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss". I understand you but if the rules are like that: national rally goes one day and covers 350km (12 SS= 123km) and just only holders of Swiss licence are eligible for championship points. It is clear that less important championship is shorter and easoer than more imprtant (ERC). The round of Swiss Championship ends in Saturday. It is finished. If any Swiss driver wish to go further and to compete in international rally he can do the second day of rally. In fact such situation creates two winners of the rally as there were two separate rallies done on common route (first day).

regards
Janusz

[jrally]

Hi 55spyder,
I would like to know if You have the final time of André Savary in the national event (if yes, maybe I could find the top 20 you are looking for) and also the date of 333 m rally !

regards
jorge

Thx ,

for the excellent explanation of the 2 separate events at same time
Januszsz !

And yes please , a scan of the clipping would be fantastic (PM'ed you also).
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To JRally ,

I only have what you & Januszsz have kindly provided.

Sorry , I too would like to know the finish of Savary ?

And any help with the 333's (75 & 76) someday ? - please do.
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In Fact , if you guys have anymore CH results from 1975-76.

Looking for these overall results also (don't have dates but these should be in chronological order) - along with the 333's :

1975

Rallye du Vin
Rallye du Court
333 Minuti

1976

Rallye des Neige
Rallye d'Uri (also called Rallye du Gotthard)
Rallye de Court
333 Minuti


Thx again - you guys are the Best !!

55spyder

Sorry - Rallye des "Neiges" , not Neige / (Rally of Snows).

[januszsz]

this is a press cut from a polish newspaper about Rally Lugano 1976:

"Jaroszewicz and Zyszkowski came second in Rally Lugano"

Polish crew Jaroszewicz and Zyszkowski came second in Rally Lugano, round of European Rally Championship. The overall winner of the rally was Swiss crew Jean Marie Carron / Pierre Schaer, third were Italians Federico Cane and Gaetano Orlando. The route of the rally was 1200km long with 35 special stages. 31 crews from 58 starters finished the rally.