Rally History (part III)

[MG Rally]

I'd be surprised if it was leading any Belgian event of a status to allow foreign entries. It was all pretty specialised and competitive with GpB/"GpR" cars even at National Championship level, leave alone Open. It wasn't Rallye de Wallonie 85 (an Open round), as I did that. Ruben Borjesson had links with Bath Motor Club in the UK (and raced at Castle Combe circuit too?).
Gp2 or GpA?

I too was a little surprised FAL to hear that a privateer Rover would be leading a Belgian rally - especially in 1985 when there were some very fast drivers in very fast Grp B cars!

I know that when Ian 'Del' Lines bought the team, the cars were all Grp 2 specification, but I am unsure if they were modified to Grp A Vitesse specification after he acquired them.

Here is the link to the information I have > http://www.roversd1club.net/features...e-ianlines.asp < and about halfway down it states...

"The first rally for A377VUK was in Belgium. His driver, Ruben Borjesson (a member of the King of Sweden’s bodyguard!) was lying first in the event when the battery exploded due to the ‘Pavé’ roads in Belgium."

Bath MC could quite possibly have been Ian 'Del' Lines motor club too as Weston-Super-Mare is only about 30 miles from Bath. Castle Combe would certainly have been their local circuit though.

[MG Rally]

I am not sure about the starting number. I write "most likely" because the "jump" on photos is from one of the first stages of the rally, the photographer put the photos by the time the cars were coming, No20 is Driano- Juillot (Citroen Visa 1000 Pistes), No21 is Hampis- Mavridis (Ford Escort RS) (the 2 previous photos of Gooding), No23 is Toivonen Harri (Fiat Ritmo), No24 is Rayneri- Pirollo (Fiat Ritmo), no25 is Fabbri (Fiat Ritmo) (the 3 next photos), so "most likely" Gooding is no22.

Thank you Harris - I now understand why you said 'most likely'. I will enter it at No 22 for the moment, but will try and confirm it with an official programme or entry list if I find one in the future.

Thank you.

[MG Rally]

I am not sure about the starting number. I write "most likely" because the "jump" on photos is from one of the first stages of the rally, the photographer put the photos by the time the cars were coming, No20 is Driano- Juillot (Citroen Visa 1000 Pistes), No21 is Hampis- Mavridis (Ford Escort RS) (the 2 previous photos of Gooding), No23 is Toivonen Harri (Fiat Ritmo), No24 is Rayneri- Pirollo (Fiat Ritmo), no25 is Fabbri (Fiat Ritmo) (the 3 next photos), so "most likely" Gooding is no22.

Thank you Harris - I now undertand why you said 'most likely'. I will enter it at No 22 for the moment, but will try and confirm it with an official programme or entry list if I find one in the future.

Thank you.

[kabouter]

1. Monte Carlo 22-29.01
2. Arctic 04-06.02 (ERC)
3. Swedish 11-13.02
4. Portugal 01-06.3
5. Safari 07-11.4
6. New Zealand 01-07.5
7. Akropolis 28.5-03.6
8. Giro d'Italia (FIA)
9. Total South Africa 05-09.7 (FIA)
10. Polski 08-10.7 (ERC)
11. 1000 Lakes 26-28.8
12. San Martino di Castrozza 02-04.9 (ERC)
13. Quebec 15-18.9
14. Tour de France 15-24.9 (ERC)
15. Sanremo 04-08-10
16. Southern Cross 08-12.10 (FIA)
17. RACE 21-23.10 (ERC)
18. Tour de Corse 05-06.11
19. RAC 18-24.11
20. Bandama 15-20.12 (FIA)

Let's go back to something we discussed almost two years ago: the FIA Cup for Drivers 1977. I've now got leading finishers online for all rounds ( http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?ty...mpid=fiacd1977 ) and it would be nice to come up with a more complete points listing than the top 3 I have now.

The problem with drawing up a classification is the rule that if a driver did not take part in an ERC coefficient 4 round, his best score in a WRC event was scrapped (in my opinion a rather silly rule - but we can't change that anymore after more than 30 years...). This means that for all drivers who scored in WRC rallies, we need to know if they took part in one of the five ERC coefficient 4 rallies. For the Arctic Rally I have a full start list so that rally doesn't present a problem, but for the other four my information is not complete. Especially for the 1977 Tour de France I hardly know anything.

Can anyone help with more detailed information on the 1977 Rajd Polski, Rally San Martino di Castrozza, Tour de France Automobile or RACE Rallye de España?

Something else which would help is an official championship classification. Unfortunately the 1978 FIA yearbook went to press before the 1977 rally season was over and no final classification of the 1977 FIA Cup was published that year. Perhaps in the 1979 FIA yearbook?

[BDunnell]

Something else which would help is an official championship classification. Unfortunately the 1978 FIA yearbook went to press before the 1977 rally season was over and no final classification of the 1977 FIA Cup was published that year. Perhaps in the 1979 FIA yearbook?

kabouter, hello again. I have every issue of Motor Sport magazine from the 1970s on CD, thanks to a subscriptions offer. So I'll look in there, just in case they published anything. I doubt it, as they didn't tend to publish great lists of results or standings, but you never know.

[ReWind]

Nice to see you are back, Tjeerd.

A small addendum to your database:
Germany
Ferdi (full name: Ferdinand) Bökmann, died on 05 December 2010
Great Britain
Barbara Armstrong, b. 05 January 1966
Mike Brown, b. 29 December 1971
John Connor, b. 26 June 1966
Elfyn Evans, b. 28 December 1988
Richard Moore, b. 04 November 1958
Max Utting, b. 07 March 1986
Spencer Wilkinson, b. 16 April 1971
Ireland
Martin Brady, b. 22 February 1979
Italy
Piter Cibin, b. 18 February 1974
Massimo Bergomi, b. 01 January 1970
Vasco Lanfranchi, b. 07 August 1985
Kenya
Peter Horsey, b. 27 April 1983
Kuwait
Meshari Al-Thefiri (your preferred spelling is “Al-Dafiri”), b. 24 November 1982
Luxemburg
Joëlle Wiltgen, b. 28 March 1971
Netherlands
Kees van Grieken, died on 14 September 2010
Jalmar van Weeren, b. 15 August 1974
Poland
Jakub Gerber, b. 29 September 1977
Sweden
Anita (full name: Anita Margareta) Jansson, b. 12 March 1961
Per-Arne Sääv, b. 09 December 1960
Janne (full name: Jan Staffan) Westlund, b. 16 December 1963
Switzerland
Roland Scherrer, died on 01 October 2010
Sylvain Trombert, b. 22 November 1981

[FAL]

I too was a little surprised FAL to hear that a privateer Rover would be leading a Belgian rally - especially in 1985 when there were some very fast drivers in very fast Grp B cars!

I know that when Ian 'Del' Lines bought the team, the cars were all Grp 2 specification, but I am unsure if they were modified to Grp A Vitesse specification after he acquired them.

Here is the link to the information I have > http://www.roversd1club.net/features...e-ianlines.asp < and about halfway down it states...

"The first rally for A377VUK was in Belgium. His driver, Ruben Borjesson (a member of the King of Sweden’s bodyguard!) was lying first in the event when the battery exploded due to the ‘Pavé’ roads in Belgium."

Bath MC could quite possibly have been Ian 'Del' Lines motor club too as Weston-Super-Mare is only about 30 miles from Bath. Castle Combe would certainly have been their local circuit though.

I only did one event in Belgium in 85 but I was reading the Belgian magazines regularly and I can't recall that. I wonder if its an editing thing, combining two events/incidents into one sentence? Mark Duez's Belga GpA car was the only regular SD1 rally car I recall there. Walkinshaw of course did the Bianchi Rally in A works SD1 and retired (but that was axle??).
The photo in the link captioned as Timberscombe Forest is the bump at the bottom of Chargot Wood, not Timberscombe.

[kabouter]

Nice to see you are back, Tjeerd.

A small addendum to your database:
Germany

Thank you Reinhard, all dates from your message are included in the database now.

[MG Rally]

I only did one event in Belgium in 85 but I was reading the Belgian magazines regularly and I can't recall that. I wonder if its an editing thing, combining two events/incidents into one sentence? Mark Duez's Belga GpA car was the only regular SD1 rally car I recall there. Walkinshaw of course did the Bianchi Rally in A works SD1 and retired (but that was axle??).
The photo in the link captioned as Timberscombe Forest is the bump at the bottom of Chargot Wood, not Timberscombe.

Mmmmmmmm, it is certainly a strange one. I think I will leave it alone for the moment, and try and talk to Ian 'Del' Lines himself about it all. If a mistake can be made regarding the location of a jump on a stage after 20 years (as you pointed out FAL), then I am sure a similar mistake could be made about a rally - possibly even two spoken sentences being typed together when the person wrote the article?

Regarding Belgian rallies that Rovers entered :

1983 Bianchi - Walkinshaw / Davenport - Accident
1984 Ardennes - Duez / Lux - Broken halfshaft
1984 Bianchi - Duez / Lux - Broken differential
1985 Ypres - Duez / Arthur - Accident
1985 Bianchi - Duez / ??????? - Withdrawn before start...

...not a very good record for the car!

[sednem]

Let's go back to something we discussed almost two years ago: the FIA Cup for Drivers 1977. I've now got leading finishers online for all rounds ( http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?ty...mpid=fiacd1977 ) and it would be nice to come up with a more complete points listing than the top 3 I have now.

The problem with drawing up a classification is the rule that if a driver did not take part in an ERC coefficient 4 round, his best score in a WRC event was scrapped (in my opinion a rather silly rule - but we can't change that anymore after more than 30 years...). This means that for all drivers who scored in WRC rallies, we need to know if they took part in one of the five ERC coefficient 4 rallies. For the Arctic Rally I have a full start list so that rally doesn't present a problem, but for the other four my information is not complete. Especially for the 1977 Tour de France I hardly know anything.

Can anyone help with more detailed information on the 1977 Rajd Polski, Rally San Martino di Castrozza, Tour de France Automobile or RACE Rallye de España?

Something else which would help is an official championship classification. Unfortunately the 1978 FIA yearbook went to press before the 1977 rally season was over and no final classification of the 1977 FIA Cup was published that year. Perhaps in the 1979 FIA yearbook?

Hi,

Regarding the RACE you can find here http://hemeroteca.elmundodeportivo.e...11813/pdf.html some info about (some) RACE 77 starters...
Basically for top drivers, only Munari and Mouton were at the RACE in 77...

Regards Américo.