Is Sebastien Bourdais that bad?

[DexDexter]

He can name exactly what should be changed thanks to his experience seting up cars which was vital in SPEC cars which you are deriding. So a driver has to adapt to a crappy setup and the team will not change it. I'm blown away that fans think this is an acceptable way for teams in the top race series in the world to operate. This is an example of everything that is wrong with F1. Who needs at track competition of the teams? Money politics and thier hired engineers will predetermine everything about the race including the car setup. Why have drivers at all then? It is stupid. Tech has gone to the point where the cars can be run with a computer.

There is nothing wrong with F1, it's all about technology, teams and drivers like it is always been. Ask Mario Andretti about Lotus 79 and ground-effect. As regards to Seabass, in my view he's done ok, considering he is facing one the best young drivers in the world and the team is a bit weird towards their drivers, at least Franz Tost who seems to blame the drivers for everything.

[ShiftingGears]

You said AOWR.

Seabass only raced in CCWS and not IRL.

IRL arguably had better depth in talent. F1 writer and commentator Peter Windsor has said Scott Dixon, TK, Franchitti and Castroneves would be good F1 drivers.

Yeah, but Windsor also claimed that Alonso was "not so good in a good car", so I'd be hesitant to take his opinions as gospel. However I think Dixon is one of the most talented guys in the IndyCar grid.

[ShiftingGears]

With what sort of logic can you possibly draw that conclusion? In one series he was driving for the top team and had engineers that we eager and willing to set the car up to his liking. In the other he is driving for a perennial back marker and has zero input into the car's setup. With those parameters how can you possibly judge the depth of talent in AWOR?

Gary

He was regarded as the best in the CCWS grid. And at the moment he is losing out to his teammate in F1. I'm not judging him by the position of his team, I'm judging him by his position in comparison to his teammate. He is not a bad driver, he has potential, but at the moment he's really got to dig deep to adapt to the F1 environment, and his car.

[indycool]

It has happened to others.....Michael Andretti, Cristiano da Matta........and the same has happened here in reverse, going back as far as Juan Fangio and continuing to today with Enrique Bernoldi.......and then there are those who have shown well at both, like Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell.

[ZzZzZz]

It has happened to others.....Michael Andretti, Cristiano da Matta........and the same has happened here in reverse, going back as far as Juan Fangio and continuing to today with Enrique Bernoldi.......and then there are those who have shown well at both, like Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell.

Yeah, I was going to note that there is a long list of ex-F1 drivers who failed in AOW.

Also, Mansell's second year here, the car wasn't so good and he just fell apart.

[jso1985]

It has happened to others.....Michael Andretti, Cristiano da Matta........and the same has happened here in reverse, going back as far as Juan Fangio and continuing to today with Enrique Bernoldi.......and then there are those who have shown well at both, like Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell.

Enrique Bernoldi was never a top driver(wasn't even close to beat his team-mates) so basically he's just another F1 reject like Wilson or Junqueira trying to succeed on an "easier" open-wheel category.

While the "true" Fangio never drove in American Open-Wheel racing, and the Fangio who ran in CART in the mid 90's didn't even drove a mile on a F1 car.

As for Bourdais, the competition he faced on CC was like it or not way much weaker than the one he's facing in F1, plus he had a better car, but!... I don't think he's as bad as it looks right now, as Vettel might be the next big thing in F1.
So IMO, he's a good driver, not championship material but could take some wins on a top car.

[garyshell]

He's certainly not bad, but it certainly gives you a scope on the depth of talent of AOWR road course drivers vs the depth of talent in F1.

With what sort of logic can you possibly draw that conclusion? In one series he was driving for the top team and had engineers that we eager and willing to set the car up to his liking. In the other he is driving for a perennial back marker and has zero input into the car's setup. With those parameters how can you possibly judge the depth of talent in AWOR?

Gary

He was regarded as the best in the CCWS grid. And at the moment he is losing out to his teammate in F1. I'm not judging him by the position of his team, I'm judging him by his position in comparison to his teammate. He is not a bad driver, he has potential, but at the moment he's really got to dig deep to adapt to the F1 environment, and his car.

I questioned and continue to question how your logic leads you to judge the depth of talent in either AWOR or F1. You still have not answered that question.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

I questioned and continue to question how your logic leads you to judge the depth of talent in either AWOR or F1. You still have not answered that question.

Gary

Best driver in CCWS struggling against teammate who also doesn't have a full season's experience in F1.

[garyshell]

Best driver in CCWS struggling against teammate who also doesn't have a full season's experience in F1.

That still does not prove a thing abouut the difference in depth between AWOR and F1, now does it? All that proves is the difference between two drivers.

Gary

[MrJan]

It has happened to others.....Michael Andretti, Cristiano da Matta........and the same has happened here in reverse, going back as far as Juan Fangio and continuing to today with Enrique Bernoldi.......and then there are those who have shown well at both, like Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell.

I'd argue that Villeneuve never really 'showed well' in F1, despite winning the championship. He did well in a very good car for one year but apart from that he left F1 under a cloud of underacheivement. I would certainly rate Bourdais above JV as an F1 driver, even if we haven't seen it yet