Is Sebastien Bourdais that bad?

[DBell]

If Red Bull pulls it support, that team may not exist next year. Dietrich Mateschitz owns 50% of STR and next year Red Bull and STR won't be able to share Adrian Newey's design. He's said his share of STR is for sell. If no buyer is found, he'll probably pull his support from STR. I can't see Berger continuing on out of his own pocket.

I think Seabass is a very talented driver, but got his chance at F1 with a poor team. Plus he got his chance a little late in his driving career. I know he's not that old, but considering the youth movement in F1 over the last decade, the track record for guys starting at his age isn't great. He may have an interest in coming back to race in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign with Puegot if his F1 career ends.

[Osiris333]

"IRL arguably had better depth in talent."

Sorry dude, you lost me there. Kannan had 6 years in CART, and never did a thing worth noting except hold up Paul Tracy on a regular basis. Franchitti was good when he was younger, as were Helio and Dixon. But there was no evidence they were going to be anything more than upper middle packers if their teams hadn't defected to the IRL.

During Seabass' tenure, CC had Tracy, Will Power, Wilson, Almedinger, Timo Glock, Doornbos, Junky, Dominguez, Phillipe (who really improved) Hunter-Reay... Well I could go on. But I'd take the top 5 in CC over the the top 5 in the IRL at any point along the way. Seabass was good. Very good and against good competition

Dario is gone, Helio is fading and I still think TK is a never was. Dixon is the only guy I think could have made some real noise in CC over the last few years.

I'm just glad it's all over now, and hopefully with a new more challenging package we can start viewing Indycar as a world class series again in the near future.

[garyshell]

He was better, relative to Vettel, at the start of the year. Maybe he'll give him another run for his money, maybe not. He's certainly not bad, but it certainly gives you a scope on the depth of talent of AOWR road course drivers vs the depth of talent in F1.

With what sort of logic can you possibly draw that conclusion? In one series he was driving for the top team and had engineers that we eager and willing to set the car up to his liking. In the other he is driving for a perennial back marker and has zero input into the car's setup. With those parameters how can you possibly judge the depth of talent in AWOR?

Gary

[garyshell]

Can't handle it?

Can't handle what? The lack of logic? I can't. Your premise may be right, there may not have been much depth. But your argument for getting to that premise doesn't hold water.

Gary

[MrJan]

Bourdais is a decent driver but I think that years driving in America have had an affect. It's obvious that the cars are completely different between F1 and the US series and it seems that many drivers from the US struggle when they get to F1. Likewise drivers that seem to struggle to get into F1 can do very well in the US (see Dan Wheldon).

Having the worst car need not always be the end of a career. Alonso drove for Minardi but ended up being WDC a few years later because his talent was realised. I think that Bourdais also has talent (not on the same level as FA) and will continue in F1 but I would be amazed if he was ever a contender for a Championship, even if he was in one of the best cars.

[Jag_Warrior]

If F1 doesn't work out, I could see Bourdais going to DTM long before he returns to North America to race in the IRL. In fact, in the last interview I read, he indicated that he was happy to have escaped the mess that AOWR has become. Like Jacques Villeneuve, he doesn't seem to feel that he has any unfinished business in AOWR. If he returned to N.A., I'd say it would be to give NASCAR a try. His IROC experience seemed to give him a desire for NASCAR over anything else here.

If anyone has seen interviews to the contrary, I'd love to read them. But I think he's settled in Europe for good... racing or no racing.

[Mad_Hatter]

As much as I hate saying it, I think Seabass is a victim of AOWR's spec racing environment. No manu. competition has meant he hasn't had to adapt to having a losing combination. Even in f3 they were spec when he won. Good for relatively lower costs, bad for driver development.


IMO we'd see him in the Peugeots before he's back over here.

[CCWS77]

As much as I hate saying it, I think Seabass is a victim of AOWR's spec racing environment. No manu. competition has meant he hasn't had to adapt to having a losing combination. Even in f3 they were spec when he won. Good for relatively lower costs, bad for driver development.


IMO we'd see him in the Peugeots before he's back over here.

He can name exactly what should be changed thanks to his experience seting up cars which was vital in SPEC cars which you are deriding. So a driver has to adapt to a crappy setup and the team will not change it. I'm blown away that fans think this is an acceptable way for teams in the top race series in the world to operate. This is an example of everything that is wrong with F1. Who needs at track competition of the teams? Money politics and thier hired engineers will predetermine everything about the race including the car setup. Why have drivers at all then? It is stupid. Tech has gone to the point where the cars can be run with a computer.

[MrJan]

It's not about setup in terms of just tweaking the suspension or altering the wing but rooted in the basis of the chassis iteself. If you have one driver saying one thing and then another driver (with pots of money) and the test drivers saying another then you just wouldn't side with the bloke on his own. Especially as putting Bourdais in a sub-par car will probably yield better results than if Vettel wasn't happy with setup.

To think that the team will spend millions just because one bloke 'who should be doing better' doesn't like the car is a joke.

[Mad_Hatter]

He can name exactly what should be changed thanks to his experience seting up cars which was vital in SPEC cars which you are deriding. So a driver has to adapt to a crappy setup and the team will not change it. I'm blown away that fans think this is an acceptable way for teams in the top race series in the world to operate. This is an example of everything that is wrong with F1. Who needs at track competition of the teams? Money politics and thier hired engineers will predetermine everything about the race including the car setup. Why have drivers at all then? It is stupid. Tech has gone to the point where the cars can be run with a computer.

I didn't say he didn't have a good technical base. I did say he hasn't had to adapt to a car that wasn't fast on a race by race basis.

No manu. competition has meant he hasn't had to adapt to having a losing combination.

That's part of f1. Prove to the team that you have the greatest potential. They'll start to suit to you, maybe. Bourdais is at a real disadvantage like Mr Jan Yeo said, Webber, Coulthard, Vettel, and the other three or four test drivers vs him alone. Fly or fall.