So how is it so far?!!

[garyshell]

...AOWR was founded on running ovals, and for a large part of it's history that's all they raced. This idea was resurrected with the formation of the IRL but for a variety of reasons was met with marginal success with fans & sponsors. Far more history and tradition with oval racing than road/street racing.

AOWR was founded with riding mechanics, skinny tires, production type chassis & drivetrains, not to mention engines in front. There's a huge amount of history and tradition there. If the modern race car can evolve out of the past, why can't the tracks they race on? AOWR started on ovals because the infrastructure was already in place, hoarse tracks. Since that time, many road tracks were built. Indy cars have gone away from the lay over Offys and offsett chassis. These cars are built so they can turn right, too. So why not let them?

Jeff

<tongue firmly in cheek mode on>

Or do both!

<tongue firmly in cheek mode off>

As long as the mix is not HEAVILY weighted in one direction or the other I am quite happy with a diverse schedule. And I am not going to look at this year or even next year's schedule to decide if it is weighted in one direction or the other.

Gary

[ZzZzZz]

Your words and the point that CART wanted to be F-1. According to the powers to be. Coherence enough response for you.

There's a big difference between CART wanting to be as big as F1, and wanting to be like F1.

My point was that CART and Indy Car had/have elements that F1 does not offer. These are differences we prefer to continue to exist.

It is simply not valid to write off people's opinion on specific ovals or the balance of ovals on the schedule with some hyperbolic argument that they are trying to sabotage the series. These people's ideal is what CART was and beyond. That includes a lot of ovals in the balance.

[!!WALDO!!]

There's a big difference between CART wanting to be as big as F1, and wanting to be like F1.

"WE WILL BURY YOU", means what.

My point was that CART and Indy Car had/have elements that F1 does not offer. These are differences we prefer to continue to exist.

So what do you want to continue to exist.

It is simply not valid to write off people's opinion on specific ovals or the balance of ovals on the schedule with some hyperbolic argument that they are trying to sabotage the series.

So we must embrace what died over what survived, right?

These people's ideal is what CART was and beyond. That includes a lot of ovals in the balance.

What was CART? You mean the Competitors setting the rules, sell chassis, leasing engines, rider buyers and promoting races? That CART?

[Bob Riebe]

AOWR was founded with riding mechanics, skinny tires, production type chassis & drivetrains, not to mention engines in front. There's a huge amount of history and tradition there. If the modern race car can evolve out of the past, why can't the tracks they race on? AOWR started on ovals because the infrastructure was already in place, hoarse tracks. Since that time, many road tracks were built. Indy cars have gone away from the lay over Offys and offsett chassis. These cars are built so they can turn right, too. So why not let them?

Jeff

Indianapolis was founded with riding mechanics, Indy was/is unique, the rest of AOWR was ovals with varied conncoctions of cars sizes, and some were dirt tracks of up to two miles. Sprint cars which is really the heart of AOWR, ran on tracks of up to one and one half miles into the fifties.

After the separation of "big cars" from sprint cars, in the fifties, only then did the large paved oval races become common.

AOWR is ovals; road races as nice as they are on some tracks, are an oddity.
Beyond Indy, AOWR would survive just fine on the sprint car circuits that finally pay decent in some areas, and as I said Indy is unique and will survive, with or without a sanction or series of any sort.

[!!WALDO!!]

Indianapolis was founded with riding mechanics, Indy was/is unique, the rest of AOWR was ovals with varied conncoctions of cars sizes, and some were dirt tracks of up to two miles. Sprint cars which is really the heart of AOWR, ran on tracks of up to one and one half miles into the fifties.

After the separation of "big cars" from sprint cars, in the fifties, only then did the large paved oval races become common.

AOWR is ovals; road races as nice as they are on some tracks, are an oddity.
Beyond Indy, AOWR would survive just fine on the sprint car circuits that finally pay decent in some areas, and as I said Indy is unique and will survive, with or without a sanction or series of any sort.

Nothing beats a Champ Car on narrow tires throwing dirt. In 1965 I saw im McElreath turn a 32.89 on the Springfield Mile in the #52 John Zink Moore Dirt Car. He broke George Amick's record of 1957 and Jim's record stood until 1981 when Larry Dickson got it.

I always describe that as the most perfect lap.

[djparky]

CART should not be forgotten, it was the benchmark for what a North American Open Wheel series should be (on the track). Champ Car, on the other hand needs to be forgotten ASAP. Like George's original vision for the IRL, it catered to only a small niche while operating way beyond its resources. To be perfectly honest, it seems like you would be more in line with a America version of GP2 than where the Indycar series is going.

totally agree- will always remember CART- will happily forget CCWS

as for this years Indy Car series- best one since the late 1990's (CART seasons)- thoroughly enjoyed St Petersburg, Indy and Milwaukee- the cars are ugly and the Danica focus on the TV is annoying but it is wonderful to have Penske v Newmann-Haas v Ganassi v Andretti Green again- and having Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti side by side on the Milwaukee grid was fantastic

bring in Long Beach, Surfers Paradise, Road America, Cleveland, Edmonton, Toronto and Mexico City to the schedule next year and I'll be very happy

once the new car has been launched I would now consider going to the Indy 500 or another Indy Car race

[ZzZzZz]

"WE WILL BURY YOU", means what.

It means you are off an some bizarre tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

So what do you want to continue to exist.

I want Tony George to continue to do what he is doing, which is working towards having the best racing on the best tracks with the best drivers and the best crowds. Since there are more venues that want a race than there are slots of the schedule. There's a lot of subjectivity, as well as guesswork, as to which tracks would be best.

So we must embrace what died over what survived, right?

Indy Car's current success is based on embracing the best of what CART was, which was the its racing philosophy. A balance of short ovals, superspeedways, natural terrain tracks, street races and an airport course.

What was CART? You mean the Competitors setting the rules, sell chassis, leasing engines, rider buyers and promoting races? That CART?

No, the racing.

[!!WALDO!!]

It means you are off an some bizarre tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

CART wanted to be like F-1 that simple, nothing bizarre about it. Just a plain simple fact from 1991.

I want Tony George to continue to do what he is doing, which is working towards having the best racing on the best tracks with the best drivers and the best crowds. Since there are more venues that want a race than there are slots of the schedule. There's a lot of subjectivity, as well as guesswork, as to which tracks would be best.

Ones that do not cost over $15,000,000 each year to build the track would be nice to be dropped.

Indy Car's current success is based on embracing the best of what CART was, which was the its racing philosophy. A balance of short ovals, superspeedways, natural terrain tracks, street races and an airport course.

Really, Watkins Glen, Sonoma, Mid-Ohio, St Pete and Belle Isle. The only races that have been on the schedule as Indy Car races so far that have been successes so far for Indy car in the Left/Right world.

No, the racing.

Like 1994 right?

[!!WALDO!!]

totally agree- will always remember CART- will happily forget CCWS

as for this years Indy Car series- best one since the late 1990's (CART seasons)- thoroughly enjoyed St Petersburg, Indy and Milwaukee- the cars are ugly and the Danica focus on the TV is annoying but it is wonderful to have Penske v Newmann-Haas v Ganassi v Andretti Green again- and having Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti side by side on the Milwaukee grid was fantastic

bring in Long Beach, Surfers Paradise, Road America, Cleveland, Edmonton, Toronto and Mexico City to the schedule next year and I'll be very happy

once the new car has been launched I would now consider going to the Indy 500 or another Indy Car race

So you are not planning on going to any races, right? Then why bring on races you will not attend or maybe watch because the "cars ar ugly and the Danica focus on the TV is annoying." Another wanting to go back to CART.

If I felt that way I wouldn't watch or comment, I would go out at race time and walk 3 miles. Watch baseball or NASCAR.

[-Helix-]

AOWR was founded with riding mechanics, skinny tires, production type chassis & drivetrains, not to mention engines in front. There's a huge amount of history and tradition there. If the modern race car can evolve out of the past, why can't the tracks they race on? AOWR started on ovals because the infrastructure was already in place, hoarse tracks. Since that time, many road tracks were built. Indy cars have gone away from the lay over Offys and offsett chassis. These cars are built so they can turn right, too. So why not let them?

Jeff

Pretty sure the infastructure for road racing was in place back then too... public roads? 'Lot more of those than there were horse tracks.

Road racing has been around just as long as oval racing, yet oval racing is traditionally the dominant form in AOWR.

I'm not saying they don't belong on road courses, I like a mixture. But anyone that thinks AOWR doesn't belong on ovals or doesn't realize why it's always been dominated by ovals needs to open their eyes.