DTM vs Super 2000

[racer69]

DTM has high powered cars driving from the proper end (RWD), but lacks manufacturers and the appeal for the privateers

Super2000 is generally pretty unexciting to watch, but has a great array of manufacturers competing, and appeals to the private entrants.

What I'd really like to see is V8Supercar VS DTM.

Unfortunately they've never run on the same track, they've come close - DTM in Turkey, V8Supercars in Bahrain...

DTM cars would be much quicker, hands down.

[mac853]

DTM has high powered cars driving from the proper end (RWD), but lacks manufacturers and the appeal for the privateers

Super2000 is generally pretty unexciting to watch, but has a great array of manufacturers competing, and appeals to the private entrants.



DTM cars would be much quicker, hands down.

About which reg. car perform better, this case let's me remind the evolution of the TC races belonged in these 15 years. Never care about the cars speed and technology, instead on lower cost and put the opponents closer for more interesting in the races, but not always could satisfied as previewed.
For example in Macau Guia race:
- 98-99 ST could run similar times then better than DTM's 92-93 cars but the problems are the privates could never run alike the works in the case the cars are still expensive and difficult to find upgraded parts,
- then introduced SP(2000-2003) which are the cheapest, could only run 10 seconds slower per lap than ST which the BMW are the monopoly of the series,
- until actual is Super2000 which the cost are much more expensive than SP but similar of ST and old DTM, but the races are always very close, and the running times are closer as the ST.

So not only the races are care for spectators,also for drivers.

[BDunnell]

Let's not forget that the formulae used in touring car racing in Europe especially have been prone to fading out and having to be replaced. Super Touring was great until manufacturers and teams got too professional and started spending too much money. It also became too popular. Having nine or 10 manufacturers in the BTCC in 1994-95 seemed great, but of course some were going to pull out because of a lack of success. Not all of those nine or 10 manufacturers were going to have the chance to be successful, after all!

At least S2000 has the advantage of a bit less flexibility in its rules, stopping teams from doing anything too different from one another, but now we have the situation whereby you seem to need a TDi engine to win. This hasn't been healthy at Le Mans, in my opinion, and it doesn't seem healthy for touring cars.

I wonder, then, what the next big formula for European touring car racing (and I include the WTCC in that, given its roots) will be? Maybe S2000, with some tweaks to the regulations, will outlast its predecessors?

[LiamM]

At least S2000 has the advantage of a bit less flexibility in its rules, stopping teams from doing anything too different from one another, but now we have the situation whereby you seem to need a TDi engine to win. This hasn't been healthy at Le Mans, in my opinion, and it doesn't seem healthy for touring cars.

I don't think we need to worry too much about the invasion from the Dark Side. BMW are developing their diesel engine, and when SEAT Sport UK get properly on top of their Leon I think we will see Vauxhall starting to worry and developing a diesel (possible combination with Chevrolet here?).

It not take long before these cars begin to filter down to the smaller teams and privateers, and then we will be able to hold a normal conversation trackside. You only had to look at when S2000 was favoured in the BTCC, it didnt take teams long to get their hands on S2000 cars capable competing at their level

[philipbain]

What I'd really like to see is V8Supercar VS DTM.

Unfortunately they've never run on the same track, they've come close - DTM in Turkey, V8Supercars in Bahrain...

Its a nice thought but the truth is that a DTM car would thrash an Aussie V8, they are just much more sophisticated aerodynamically and the chassis is frankly a lot better as a result (to cope with the loadings etc.).

As for S2000 vs. Silhouette there are advantages to both, S2000 is a better showcase of a road going product as the racers are based on showroom models (obviously considerably modified), but silhouette formulas allow manufacturers to change to new models or make cosmetic changes very easily and quickly without having to make a whole new car and have to start from scratch, so it's not true to say that silhouette formula cars are intrinsically more expensive.

[BDunnell]

I don't think we need to worry too much about the invasion from the Dark Side. BMW are developing their diesel engine, and when SEAT Sport UK get properly on top of their Leon I think we will see Vauxhall starting to worry and developing a diesel (possible combination with Chevrolet here?).

It not take long before these cars begin to filter down to the smaller teams and privateers, and then we will be able to hold a normal conversation trackside. You only had to look at when S2000 was favoured in the BTCC, it didnt take teams long to get their hands on S2000 cars capable competing at their level

My problem with this is that I don't want S2000 to become, in effect, a diesel-only formula!

[LiamM]

My problem with this is that I don't want S2000 to become, in effect, a diesel-only formula!

Me neither, but it looks thats the way its going to go, Hydrogen fuel racing anyone?

[philipbain]

My problem with this is that I don't want S2000 to become, in effect, a diesel-only formula!

Its true that as the rules stand Diesel seems to have an advantage, how about spicing things up by letting the petrol cars run low pressure turbos and E85, its more environmentally sound (renewable fuel) and would spice up interest. Also make the diesels run bio diesel.

[Eurotech]

What I'd like to see is an S2000 (maybe Vectra) a DTM (Merc?) and a Aussie V8 all ballasted up to have the same power to weight ratio and see which is faster on a lap of say Brands hatch.................

[LiamM]

Its true that as the rules stand Diesel seems to have an advantage, how about spicing things up by letting the petrol cars run low pressure turbos and E85, its more environmentally sound (renewable fuel) and would spice up interest. Also make the diesels run bio diesel.

Low pressure turbos no way!

E85 - WTCC will be E85 only soon (next year?) and in the BTCC its already allowed