Discraceful - Olympic torch relay

[Magnus]

Ok, sorry then maxu05... And btw: i have been to China. Twice actually

[Daniel]

OK, perhaps a nibble. I see that you sport the South African Flag there Daniel, and you are critical of China's past record, sure you must be kidding.

As Dave said every country has it's skeletons in the closet. South Africa (where my parents are from) is no exception. But it's history now. China is still doing what it's done for ages but pretending to be democratic at the same time. It's a joke and no one other than yourself is fooled by it.

Why can China just not play nice with it's neighbours instead of flexing it's muscles constantly at Taiwan. You never see Australia saying trying to intimidate New Zealand or PNG or Indonesia. They work with their neighbours and not against them. Then there's the knockoff trade which China's government pretends to care about but basically just leaves alone.

When people talk about South Africa they say "Lovely place, lovely people but just a pity about the violence" but I don't hear such nice things said about China. Perhaps they'd say "Nice place, pity about the blatant disregard for human rights, the sovereignty of neighbouring countries, the intellectual property of western countries, the pollution, the widerspread poverty" and so on.

Myself and the girlfriend (plenty of others too I'm sure) have made a conscious decision not to buy anything made in China from now on. That's our gift to the Fat Cats Republic of China Might not be much but it's our way of saying thanks for being such a terrible country.

While I'm in Australia for a few more hours I'll be sure to enjoy my human rights and my ability to criticise the government and not disappear and then when I get off the plane in the UK I'll enjoy the same while you enjoy your lack of free speach and cheap badly made knockoff goods.

Enjoy your scrambled eggs tomorrow morning. Hope the eggs are real
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/01/01/china/

[Valve Bounce]

I am not Chinese Magnus,(I am an Aussie), I have just lived here for 6 years teaching English. There are many things that I don't like here, but, there are so many good things happening here, that the good things outweigh the bad. No country/society is perfect, and I am yet to see a country/system that is. I just hate to see people put something down, that they have never seen with their own eyes, have never been to the place, and get on their high horse and say bad things about people or a nation that they have never been to, and believe everything they read in the media. If I believed everything they printed in the "Sun", (that's the English newspaper), I would have a very warped view of the world,(just an example). I am teaching many young children, and to see the sparkle in their eyes when we discuss the Olympics, and all the different sports is inspiring. These children are all excited about the Olympics. How do I explain to them that their dream of watching the games in their country is being jeopardised by these morons trying to extinguish the Olympic flame with a fire extinguisher. It's the Olympics, I don't think it is appropriate for these protests. You want to protest, then hang out in front of the consulate/embassy, but leave the games alone. There are athletes from all over the world that have trained all their life for such an event, and for some, this is their only chance to make it. Don't spoil it for them. Rant#2 over

Dear Maxu,

I don't know how much news you get and how much is filtered. I note that you are a teacher, and my advice to you is not to broach this subject any further. Furthemore, do not, under any circumstances, discuss at your school anything about Tibet or Falun Gong, Tienamen Square uprising/demonstrations, anyone that suffered under the Red Brigade, or what happened just after the Red Chinese came to power in the forties.

Keep your head down, be happy you can teach children and that they are happy about sport and the Olympics. You are in a foreign country and must abide by their rules. If you are happy being in China, then so be it - leave it at that. I am happy that I am back in Australia, and now in Melbourne where I can look up and see the sky and never have to breathe that crap each day that you do.

And trust me, I know what I am talking about.

[Daniel]

Did it? Do people really consider sports so important that they let foreigners decide their internal policies just to be part of the Olympics? Boycotting the 1980 Moscow Olympics didn't bring down the Soviet Union and boycotting the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics didn't bring down the USA. They just screwed up the games for the sports fans.

Yes yes it did. It wasn't the sole deciding factor of course...... Tell me what do you think people in Finland would think if you took Ice Hockey and rallying away? Perhaps then you'll understand why not being able to play international rugby and cricket would be so bad for SA.....

[Camelopard]

While I'm in Australia for a few more hours

Aaahhh, That explains it, I was beginning to think that you never slept!!!!

[Camelopard]

Yes yes it did. It wasn't the sole deciding factor of course...... Tell me what do you think people in Finland would think if you took Ice Hockey and rallying away? Perhaps then you'll understand why not being able to play international rugby and cricket would be so bad for SA.....

Yes I think Eki does not understand the importance placed on sport in South Africa and I can include Australia and NZ in that. It may not have been the deciding factor, but it did play a big part.

In my opinion one of the best images of the 1990s was the photo of Nelson Mandela holding up the Rugby World Cup.......

[Valve Bounce]

I think Maxu has a point about the Olympics. It would do great harm to many, many people who have nothing to do with the governing of China.
However, I do believe that the demonstrations in the torch relay would cause many high up in the Government there to lose face, and in the long term, this may be a good thing. But as the Dalai Lama advocates, don't boycott the Olympics, and I go along with that.

[ShiftingGears]

All due respect Dave, but cobblers. You only see what the media puts in front of you. There are always two sides of the story, and anything that China reports is dismissed automatically.

This is heavily ironic considering that the Chinese media is censored by the government, so you don't even get a choice whether you see two sides to the story or not.

[Daniel]

This is heavily ironic considering that the Chinese media is censored by the government, so you don't even get a choice whether you see two sides to the story or not.

Plus there's heavy internet censorship too

[Valve Bounce]

Plus there's heavy internet censorship too

It is my understanding that anything about Tibet is filtered out from the internet in China. I would not be surprised if Maxu does not fully understand what the protests are about.

But if I were in his place, I certainly would not be making any waves. None of my colleagues in engineering in China would have discussed anything on this subject. Not if you want another contract there.