Alonso Not Happy At Renault[merged]

[maximilian]

I would not doubt that Alonso had equal equipment at McLaren... if anything may have been unequal, it would be the human factor, but who can blame (if any!) team members and/or leadership for being disenchanted about a nagging Alonso, who testifies against the team, and essentially brings dischord on various fronts - so why WOULD people work as hard for him than they would for a motivated and team-spirited Hamilton?

The bottom line is, Alonso made his own career decisions, and he needs to live with them - he felt like he wanted to leave Renault... so he did - turns out it was the wrong decision "for him" - then he felt he wanted to leave McLaren, and did - say what you want about how he may or may not feel in that team, but from a competitive point of view, that was a bonehead move. Remains to be seen if he manages to score more points at Renault than Heikki did last year. I hope it doesn't turn into a wasted second half of his career, a la Villeneuve, where he just fades away driving cars that aren't ever really tops...

If Kimi stays, it's hard to envision Alonso driving for Ferrari, especially given his record of wanting to be #1 - and Kimi wouldn't have any of that - so why would Ferrari invite that trouble on themselves? They can win the WDC with Kimi, and have a reasonably talented #2 to score enough points for the constructors' title, without conflicts.

If Kimi were to retire, then perhaps they might take Alonso on, but even then it seems there are plenty of other good options that come without baggage - perhaps Rosberg, Vettel... or maybe Michael will make a comeback, heheh... Or maybe by then Grosjean is ready :

[Tazio]

I would not doubt that Alonso had equal equipment at McLaren... if anything may have been unequal, it would be the human factor, but who can blame (if any!) team members and/or leadership for being disenchanted about a nagging Alonso, who testifies against the team, and essentially brings dischord on various fronts - so why WOULD people work as hard for him than they would for a motivated and team-spirited Hamilton?

The bottom line is, Alonso made his own career decisions, and he needs to live with them - he felt like he wanted to leave Renault... so he did - turns out it was the wrong decision "for him" - then he felt he wanted to leave McLaren, and did - say what you want about how he may or may not feel in that team, but from a competitive point of view, that was a bonehead move. Remains to be seen if he manages to score more points at Renault than Heikki did last year. I hope it doesn't turn into a wasted second half of his career, a la Villeneuve, where he just fades away driving cars that aren't ever really tops...

If Kimi stays, it's hard to envision Alonso driving for Ferrari, especially given his record of wanting to be #1 - and Kimi wouldn't have any of that - so why would Ferrari invite that trouble on themselves? They can win the WDC with Kimi, and have a reasonably talented #2 to score enough points for the constructors' title, without conflicts.

If Kimi were to retire, then perhaps they might take Alonso on, but even then it seems there are plenty of other good options that come without baggage - perhaps Rosberg, Vettel... or maybe Michael will make a comeback, heheh... Or maybe by then Grosjean is ready :

Fred is the most accomplished driver of the current crop!
Your negative allusions to Fred are nothing but supposition and hearsay!
I reject your theory of how Fred would handle being a co-number one with Kimi.
And discard the body of you post as rubbish! Just my opinion!
Cheers

[maximilian]

How very constructive and objective of you

[Firstgear]

I pretty much agree with max, except for two things.

1. I don't think Alonso will just fade away. He's proven he can win a championship in an inferior car, and may do so again at Renault. It will just take some time fro the team to come together again with him as #1.

2. MS isn't coming back, not without TC.

[Tazio]

How very constructive and objective of you

And how pompous, and bias of you!

[ottostreet]

to say fernando is the most accomplished of the current crop is a little presumptuous. for instance, kimi is equal or ahead on most stats. behind by three on victories, but we all know how many races kimi retired from the lead of. im a kimi fan, but i try to look at things objectively (most of the time anyway!), and i would say that kimi is every bit as accomplished as fernando. i would also present an argument for david coulthard, but.. well, hes on the downward slope, so there is no real point.

[Tazio]

to say fernando is the most accomplished of the current crop is a little presumptuous. for instance, kimi is equal or ahead on most stats. behind by three on victories, but we all know how many races kimi retired from the lead of. im a kimi fan, but i try to look at things objectively (most of the time anyway!), and i would say that kimi is every bit as accomplished as fernando. i would also present an argument for david coulthard, but.. well, hes on the downward slope, so there is no real point.

Otto I don’t, because of one simple reason Fred has 2 wdc. Kimi 1
I didn't say that Fred is a better overall package It's the lowest common denominator.
Your opinion is well respected by me. I just think that 2 WDC Both at the expense of M Shumacher
is a greater accomplishment. No argument Just my opinion! I measure acomplishments in F1 by champions, and championships!

[ottostreet]

Otto I don’t, because of one simple reason Fred has 2 wdc. Kimi 1
I didn't say that Fred is a better overall package It's the lowest common denominator.
Your opinion is well respected by me. I just think that 2 WDC Both at the expense of M Shumacher
is a greater accomplishment. No argument Just my opinion! I measure acomplishments in F1 by champions, and championships!

i dont really view drivers in terms of championships. for instance, damon hill won a championship, and while a good driver, i dont believe that he ever showed the same level of talent that fernando and alonso have. and lets not forget, kimi should be more than a single championship winner. at the end of the day, i realise that fernando has two titles, but i would argue that only one was at the expense of schumacher...2006. in 2005, both kimi and fernando saw off michael. fernando has been the slightly more fortuitous of the two so far in his career, because as we witnessed in 2007, as soon as kimi was given his golden opportunity, he grabbed it. i firmly believe kimi will overtake fernando in all statistics this season too.

[Tazio]

i dont really view drivers in terms of championships. for instance, damon hill won a championship, and while a good driver, i dont believe that he ever showed the same level of talent that fernando and alonso have. and lets not forget, kimi should be more than a single championship winner. at the end of the day, i realise that fernando has two titles, but i would argue that only one was at the expense of schumacher...2006. in 2005, both kimi and fernando saw off michael. fernando has been the slightly more fortuitous of the two so far in his career, because as we witnessed in 2007, as soon as kimi was given his golden opportunity, he grabbed it. i firmly believe kimi will overtake fernando in all statistics this season too.

And when he does I will consider(and gladly as I'm a much bigger Kimi fan than Fred) him more accomplished!
BTW Fred's 26, and it's quite possible his last page is far from being written!

[maximilian]

I pretty much agree with max, except for two things.

1. I don't think Alonso will just fade away. He's proven he can win a championship in an inferior car, and may do so again at Renault. It will just take some time fro the team to come together again with him as #1.

I hope so too... I don't think so either, but "fear" it, after what happened to Jacques, which still is a bit heartbreaking to me to this day... what a waste of a career...

2. MS isn't coming back, not without TC.

Yeah, I also don't think so Although, I still DO believe that Ferrari would use him as an emergency fill-in driver in case Kimi or Massa get injured this year, in which case I suspect he would still be very competitive.