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Thread: WRC Testing

  1. #6661
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    Toyota diff mapping evolution is interesting to me (or maybe I see to much test videos).

    First little understeer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_9VsvaUczA

    After few days some fast oversteer (as Mirek mentioned)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl_szvXqNTw

    Than some balanced handling but little corrections was still needed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6UsRY5bZ8

    And finally good stable balancend (almost 2009 like) handling
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bewf21IjaJU

  2. #6662
    Senior Member Rallyper's Avatar
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    I think you´ve seen too much test vids.

    How on earth can you tell from these different conditions? We can see surfaces is not same on the vids, and also two drivers, so for me I wouldn´t make any conclusions whatsoever on differences on handling of the car. Unless I was at sight, talking to the drivers or was expert on suspension working for the team etz.

    For sure we can figure out they have tested settings. But making conclusions out of it, no!

    That´s my opinion. Don´t take it hard J_n_z ...
    "Reis vas pät pat kaar vas kut"
    Tommi Mäkinen, back in the years...

  3. Likes: janvanvurpa (5th January 2017),WRC1 (23rd December 2016)
  4. #6663
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    Michelin video with Latvala

    https://youtu.be/Gpyy1SpxlrU

  5. #6664
    Senior Member Lundefaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seb_sh View Post
    This is a more complex subject as far as I know. Look at LMP1 cars in recent times, there was a shift to more vertical front edges while also trying to control how air moves through and around the car. It's true this was also cause by regulations (the open slits on top or on the side of the wheel well) but it showed that having a more "blunt" attack angle is not necessarily worse, especially if you can control how the air moves around or over the surfaces. The dive planes (the small wings on the front bumper) play a big role here as well.

    Overall I guess it's more about the shape of the whole package and low pressure areas behind the car, not just surface area.

    There is a lot of analysis on this subject on http://mulsannescorner.com/ website and facebook group.
    Verticality has nothing to do with frontal area, that is, as you say your selves, in an effort to direct air flow.
    Moder LMP1 cars have as small a frontal area as the rules will allow.
    If you ask Adrian Newey this is his first objective when designing a F1 car.
    For a rally car, a lot of the parameters are given, because you start with a production car body, and you have an 1875mm width limit.
    So, the smaller frontal area the road car body has, the less drag you can achieve (also a bit dependant on general body shape), and the more liberties you can take to design the aerodynamic "helpers."
    So if you look at the Toyota it is quite a narrow car, you can see this on the width of the fender "boxes." You also see this on the Polo.
    Fiesta seems a little bit wider, so also the i20, and the C3 the widest.

    In regards to the C3 I think they have worked a lot on drag, on top of downforce, because they started with a bigger frontal area. And i suspect this is why they went in the direction of "normal" fender flares, vs the boxes.
    They have also used a lot of time perfecting the air flow around and in the fender flares. They have "blown" the fender openings, very visual in the front with air coming in from behind the head lights.

    In regards to the Toyota, they have gone max out towards downforce.
    Ford and Hyundai is in the direction of the Toyota.

    Will be very interesting if it will be a real performance difference. If it is any, this will be most evident in medium to long corners, in medium to high speed (100-200 kph), with an increasing factor depending on how straight you can drive the car.
    https://www.facebook.com/noseendfirst?ref=hl#

  6. #6665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lundefaret View Post
    Verticality has nothing to do with frontal area, that is, as you say your selves, in an effort to direct air flow.
    Moder LMP1 cars have as small a frontal area as the rules will allow.
    If you ask Adrian Newey this is his first objective when designing a F1 car.
    For a rally car, a lot of the parameters are given, because you start with a production car body, and you have an 1875mm width limit.
    So, the smaller frontal area the road car body has, the less drag you can achieve (also a bit dependant on general body shape), and the more liberties you can take to design the aerodynamic "helpers."
    So if you look at the Toyota it is quite a narrow car, you can see this on the width of the fender "boxes." You also see this on the Polo.
    Fiesta seems a little bit wider, so also the i20, and the C3 the widest.

    In regards to the C3 I think they have worked a lot on drag, on top of downforce, because they started with a bigger frontal area. And i suspect this is why they went in the direction of "normal" fender flares, vs the boxes.
    They have also used a lot of time perfecting the air flow around and in the fender flares. They have "blown" the fender openings, very visual in the front with air coming in from behind the head lights.

    In regards to the Toyota, they have gone max out towards downforce.
    Ford and Hyundai is in the direction of the Toyota.

    Will be very interesting if it will be a real performance difference. If it is any, this will be most evident in medium to long corners, in medium to high speed (100-200 kph), with an increasing factor depending on how straight you can drive the car.
    You are right of course about frontal area. If a car needs to punch a bigger hole through the air it will have more drag. I was just pointing out that it's not the only factor. You also mention some interesting stuff, I didn't study the aero bits as closely but one thing that I also noticed is that Toyota has probably the most aggressive aero package, I mean they are trying to get the most downforce, especially from the underbody and diffuser. After that come Hyundai and Ford and seem to have about equal amount of aero elements then Citroen with slightly less aggressive parts. But like I said I'm no expert and haven't looked at this in detail. Oh and how about the VW that was also not so aggressive, I guess it would be at about Citroen level, no?

  7. #6666
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    C3 production car is 1470 mm high 40 mm lower than Yaris... wheel area width is equal, so I can imagine, that C3 cross section is actually relatively small.

  8. #6667
    Senior Member Lundefaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_n_z View Post
    C3 production car is 1470 mm high 40 mm lower than Yaris... wheel area width is equal, so I can imagine, that C3 cross section is actually relatively small.
    C3 2017
    Height: 1470 mm
    Width: 1745mm
    Wheel arch width: 65 mm pr side

    Yaris (2016, I think the 2017 will be quite similar?)
    Height: 1510 mm
    Width: 1695 mm
    Wheel arch width: 90 mm pr side (the difference is a bit bigger because the Citroën is squarer in its shape)
    https://www.facebook.com/noseendfirst?ref=hl#

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  10. Likes: A FONDO (24th December 2016)
  11. #6669
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    Some interesting stuff here but maybe it should be in the Technical Analysis thread ...
    #M-SPORTER

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