Independence

[FrankenSchwinn]

i'm reading independent people right now, pretty good book.....

[Mark]

The balkans has been a mess in general for a long time. I talked to someone a long while ago who fled the fighting there and he said that everything was fine with the different ethnic groups living together then came the day when people would go into their next door neighbours house and murder everyone there because they were a different ethnicity,, crazy.

[anthonyvop]

Is the independence already approved by UN?

Who cares? If the people of Kosovo decide to be an independent country it is a problem between Serbia and Kosovo.

The thought of the UN doing anything is scarey.

[BDunnell]

Who cares? If the people of Kosovo decide to be an independent country it is a problem between Serbia and Kosovo.

Clearly, the conflict of the 1990s — a war literally 'on Europe's doorstep', with effects that went wider than individual country borders — passed you by.

The thought of the UN doing anything is scarey.

I can think of worse things. Regime change, anyone?

[BDunnell]

By the way, gadjo_dilo, thank you for a very good and thought-provoking response. I still don't really agree entirely with you, as I believe that the process of separation became inevitable, but I do agree that it was a shame it had to happen, especially in the way it did. I am also of the same opinion as you regarding the desperate state Kosovo finds itself in.

[Drew]

Becoming independant and then joining up to the EU, seems almost odd.

When does a country become independant then, when <70% of the world has recognised it? What's to stop Scotland, Catalunya et al doing the same thing?

[BDunnell]

Becoming independant and then joining up to the EU, seems almost odd.

It is still an independent sovereign state though.

When does a country become independant then, when <70% of the world has recognised it? What's to stop Scotland, Catalunya et al doing the same thing?

If the people of those areas want it and can make sensible, informed decisions, then let them. In both cases, I feel it would be a mistake, but each to their own.

[Magnus]

Interesting reading there Gadjo_Dilo! I have always had big difficulties in grasping the ethnic and nation-questions of the balkan countries and in the south eastern parts of Europe.
Most swedish people are rather un-nationalistic, and tend to celebrate more when Norway have their 17 of may rather then on our own 6 of june. I guess we are a bit yealous
In the end though I must say that I can understand if people feels pride in their home-country, but on the other hand it probaly also depends on how old the nation is, and how long ago you had to fight for it. Sweden have been very lame, or wise, depending upon how you see it, and not been involved in warfare for almost 200 years. I think this have brought along a very little interest in what really constitutes a state.
Norway, for example, was invaded by the germans in WWII, and furthermore recently celebrated their 100 years anniversary of freedom from the union with Sweden, which was abandoned in 1905. Something many swedes regret today... Funnily enough Sweden had a clausul in the contract which stated that they could oppose to the annulment of the union until 2005. Pity no one did... Put maybe that would have been a somewhat sensitive question Anyway, this have naturally led to the norwegians being far more patriotic then the swedish people.

A healthy world, I believe, is a world which moves towards disregarding state-formations, and more look to peoples needs, more than states needs(that is people bond by something else then agreements on paper..). As long as our world is defined by fire-power it is a long way to go though...

It is also interesting that country after country line up to be a part of the EU. I wonder how this will look in a hundred years or so. First you kill some people in order to defend your country, then a few years later your children apply in order to make the country you fought for a part of a big union. Will there come a day when we look at the states of Europe as nothing more then beurocratical devices required for tax-control? Will there come a day when we laugh at the old patriots who gave their lives for their right to a state, and a piece of recogniced land, or will patriotisme once again flourish?

Regarding Kosovo I feel glad for their happiness, but I am also a bit worried about their possibilities in the long run. It is not a rich country we are talking about. Poor people in combination with patriotism have proven an unhealthy mix before, even more so since the serbs are not all that happy with the new country.
I wish them all the best for the future, and keep my fingers crossed.

[Drew]

If the people of those areas want it and can make sensible, informed decisions, then let them. In both cases, I feel it would be a mistake, but each to their own.

But what legally has to happen? This is what confuses me.

[BDunnell]

But what legally has to happen? This is what confuses me.

There is confusion over this, hence the disagreements between different parties over Kosovo.