Why is this forum dead?

To be honest, I think IndyCar is having the finest title battle in the last five years, and the Indy 500 was probably the finest Indy 500 race in the same span. If Montoya wins the IndyCar Champion title this year, it will be undoubtedly the finest storyline of ALL motorsports in 2015 (given how moribund F1 is this year), and yet nobody is discussing this? Montoya is already one of the best fairytale comeback stories of all times.

The season did start kind of slow, with NOLA race being a low point, but it picked up strongly after that. Indy 500 was excellent. The Toronto race as the strongest race of the last five years or so, and Iowa Corn Indy delivered another very solid race. While I didn't consider Fontana a great race due to safety considerations, it did generate an incredible amount of gossip on automotive news sites. The TV ratings are supposedly going up. What happen? Do we really need to get Danica Patrick back in Indy seat to get people interested?

The CART - IRL wars, that ended a few years back, left a whole lot of old time fans with a bad taste in their mouths. Then, the new IRL was, at best, underwhelming. New management didn't/doesn't understand that much of the allure of the old series was the cars as well as the drivers. Add in an almost complete lack of meaningful promotion and it adds up to not very many new fans replacing the disgruntled old ones.

The CART fanatics went to their own website quite a few years ago, to tell each other how wonderful they were and what %&#$ the IRL fans were. (I haven't looked in there in years, but wouldn't be surprised to find a Jonestown scenario.) The IRL faithful always had their own site, which was also, ah, less than welcoming if you had a different opinion. It may still be around. And a very few of the old folks from here started a new site a couple years ago which quickly degenerated into an "insult anyone who doesn't think like us" place.

The races this year have been pretty good on average, but the cars still suck. I still love racing, but have lost the passion for IndyCar. I don't make a special effort to watch or record for later the races and don't particularly care if or how many races I miss. I get my fix with SCCA club racing these days.

Because various owners and various officials thought they didn't need any fans and could do with open wheel racing as they pleased

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Originally Posted by zako85

To be honest, I think IndyCar is having the finest title battle in the last five years, and the Indy 500 was probably the finest Indy 500 race in the same span. If Montoya wins the IndyCar Champion title this year, it will be undoubtedly the finest storyline of ALL motorsports in 2015 (given how moribund F1 is this year), and yet nobody is discussing this? Montoya is already one of the best fairytale comeback stories of all times.

The season did start kind of slow, with NOLA race being a low point, but it picked up strongly after that. Indy 500 was excellent. The Toronto race as the strongest race of the last five years or so, and Iowa Corn Indy delivered another very solid race. While I didn't consider Fontana a great race due to safety considerations, it did generate an incredible amount of gossip on automotive news sites. The TV ratings are supposedly going up. What happen? Do we really need to get Danica Patrick back in Indy seat to get people interested?

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Uh no, we don't need/want her back to detract from the sport again. Otherwise all good valid points, but as Starter summed up on this thread, and some time ago...


29th January 2015,
Thread: Brian Barnhart named as new Race Director
Post #1

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Originally Posted by Starter

The king of not having a clue is back in charge. That pretty much does it for me as a follower of the series. To bad, I really enjoyed my involvement in the series back when it was real racing....

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....When I read that (up above), I figured 'here's a guy who follows IRL more than I do, and if that's his opinion, I figure why should I bother?' I did watch the 500, and it was good, but the cloned-cars thing is still a put-off for me - those cars resemble more the of Can-Am racers of the late 70's/early 80's, than "Open" Wheel Racing.

Anyways, like you, I hope things will make a turn around for the better, though I have my doubts... which leads to the next comment that's fitting for the times....

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Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

Because various owners and various officials thought they didn't need any fans and could do with open wheel racing as they pleased

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... says it all really.

Just follow the money. :burn:

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Originally Posted by Starter

The races this year have been pretty good on average, but the cars still suck

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When IndyCar fans say that cars suck, what do they mean? That the cars are no beauty queens? Aren't race cars primarily about speed and safety and affordability first? What does it matter that a car is not beautiful in someone's subjective view? Remember the 2012 Formula 1 cars with their flat shovel noses with a kink? I thought they were alright, but most people hated them. Or the 2014 F1 cars. Those anteaters weren't beauty queens either.

Why's no one here? Nobody wants to say anything detrimental to IndyCar, just in case they slap a ban on us... ;)

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Originally Posted by zako85

When IndyCar fans say that cars suck, what do they mean? That the cars are no beauty queens? Aren't race cars primarily about speed and safety and affordability first? What does it matter that a car is not beautiful in someone's subjective view? Remember the 2012 Formula 1 cars with their flat shovel noses with a kink? I thought they were alright, but most people hated them. Or the 2014 F1 cars. Those anteaters weren't beauty queens either.

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What do they mean? How about:
1) The cars are ugly and, almost, not even open wheel anymore.
2) The cars are slow. Compared to Indy type cars of twenty years ago. The drivers keep saying they want more HP, so they think so too.
3) The cars are all identical. There is no mechanical innovation any longer. Even the so called aero kits are mandated to be cookie cutter.
4) Race cars have never been about affordability. Affordability is for vacuum cleaners and blenders and your daily driver. Not in an arena where you are striving to be fastest longest.

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Originally Posted by zako85

Why is this forum dead?

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Because IndyCar is run by the owners of IMS?

IMS? :confused: Incompetent Motor Sports?

Because people are always complaining about that stupid and irrelevant past and despite it still happens on TrackForum, at least it isn't as worse over there as it used to be here!

There's not enough interest at the moment for that many members (here) to mount a fierce debate. Which indicates a problem. Some of it, of course, related to the state of IRL. Past, and apparently present.

I am/was pro-CART, but at this point I would like to just see OWR back to a level of appreciation it once was. However, with the drastic influence of technology (aero), operation costs, more direction towards city-venues, management issues, along w/other items noted on here, I don't see anything favorable in the near future. :blackeye:

I suppose it's just a matter of waiting to see if OWR can sail through rough waters.

From what I've seen on some other forums, NASCAR folks are complaining about their product as well. With that in mind, at least the IRL forum here has more life on it than the MSF's NASCAR forum.

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Originally Posted by Starter

4) Race cars have never been about affordability. Affordability is for vacuum cleaners and blenders and your daily driver. Not in an arena where you are striving to be fastest longest.

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Let's get it straight. Very few motorsports these days can afford a relatively open-spec open-chassis design. The ones who can (barely) afford it at the three to four top-of-the-top international level competitions such as Formula 1, WEC's LMP1, MotoGP, and perhaps WRC? In what other motorsports do you see no expense spared kind of competition? Having said that, I think IndyCar might have possibly made a mistake by going with a single chassis builder since 2012. Instead, they could have mandated a relatively tight specification on chassis designs to keep the field close while allowing multiple chassis manufacturers to be in IndyCar business, which would have hopefully brought the costs down due to competition.

Because a while ago a certain few members were allowed to go unchecked with their disruptive posting and it chased away the few normal regulars the board had. Now there's just a ghost town.

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Originally Posted by AAReagles

There's not enough interest at the moment for that many members (here) to mount a fierce debate. Which indicates a problem. Some of it, of course, related to the state of IRL. Past, and apparently present.

I am/was pro-CART, but at this point I would like to just see OWR back to a level of appreciation it once was. However, with the drastic influence of technology (aero), operation costs, more direction towards city-venues, management issues, along w/other items noted on here, I don't see anything favorable in the near future. :blackeye:

I suppose it's just a matter of waiting to see if OWR can sail through rough waters.

From what I've seen on some other forums, NASCAR folks are complaining about their product as well. With that in mind, at least the IRL forum here has more life on it than the MSF's NASCAR forum.

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I've always been an IRL guy BUT as well a CART guy until 2001... CART back in 1998 and 1999 (despite we lost two great drivers in '99) were two epic seasons and let me tell you... They weren't that quick but the AAReagles were beautiful cars, I love to race those in simulations... Also liked Robby Gordon's yellow/blue Menards car in '99, can't deny that those were the most beautiful cars in AOWR history.

So basically, there are two types of people who no longer watch IndyCar but continue to disparage it right and left:

1. The old farts who have moved on and will not watch IndyCar racing under any circumstances. That's fine. But they continue coming to forums and blogs and posting excuses such as "cars are ugly" (as if ugly cars don't race in other series).

2. People who still follow motorsports but who have an utterly irrational hatred for IndyCar. Normally, they try to use the same old "ugly car" argument as the justification for their irrational hatred, but this does get old.

Just look at NASCAR. Don't tell me that people watch NASCAR because the SPEC plastic soap bars on wheels with painted headlights and no doors known as stock cars are actually beauty queens.

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Originally Posted by zako85

So basically, there are two types of people who no longer watch IndyCar but continue to disparage it right and left:

1. The old farts who have moved on and will not watch IndyCar racing under any circumstances. That's fine. But they continue coming to forums and blogs and posting excuses such as "cars are ugly" (as if ugly cars don't race in other series).

2. People who still follow motorsports but who have an utterly irrational hatred for IndyCar. Normally, they try to use the same old "ugly car" argument as the justification for their irrational hatred, but this does get old.

Just look at NASCAR. Don't tell me that people watch NASCAR because the SPEC plastic soap bars on wheels with painted headlights and no doors known as stock cars are actually beauty queens.

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Interesting conclusion. Especially since the only one to mention ugly cars was me back in post #7. That's 1 in fourteen or 7.14% of the posts. Do you perhaps have a day job interpreting polls for politicians? :D

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Originally Posted by Starter

Interesting conclusion. Especially since the only one to mention ugly cars was me back in post #7. That's 1 in fourteen or 7.14% of the posts. Do you perhaps have a day job interpreting polls for politicians? :D

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Although it may look this way, your posts did not inspire my half-drunken post. It's everywhere! That particular day, and previously, I was reading a post of Jalopnik.com, and I was irritated. That's why I came up with that hypothesis.

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Originally Posted by zako85

Although it may look this way, your posts did not inspire my half-drunken post. It's everywhere! That particular day, and previously, I was reading a post of Jalopnik.com, and I was irritated. That's why I came up with that hypothesis.

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I can relate to half-drunken posts. I was just pulling your leg a bit.

Actually, IndyCar just doesn't seem to have the aura it once did. The competition is fairly good, but I just can't maintain interest in the series. I watch a few of the races if I happen to be home. I just don't go out of my way to watch, like set the recorder if I'm not home. Didn't used to be that way.

Here is an interesting article about slow and painful demise of road racing at Laguna Seca.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/why-ru...ant-1724205713

I loved to got to Laguna Seca. My first visit was when the pass happened.
I like the country side, sitting on the hill and be able to watch 3/4 of the track, more or less.
Never been to Sears point, but would go back to Laguna Seca in a heart beat.

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Originally Posted by zako85

Although it may look this way, your posts did not inspire my half-drunken post. It's everywhere! That particular day, and previously, I was reading a post of Jalopnik.com, and I was irritated. That's why I came up with that hypothesis.

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It could be because certain members of the IRL contingent spent an inordinate amount of time and IMS resources trashing CART AND CCWS so that they left no room for fans of those two entities to become fans of what followed. P!$$ on IMS.

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Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

It could be because certain members of the IRL contingent spent an inordinate of time and IMS resources trashing CART AND CCWS so that they left no room for fans of those two entities to become fans of what followed. P!$$ on IMS.

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And none of that traveled the other way, right? :rolleyes:

Not until NOW. That is why NASCAR is in talks to absorb the decaying rectangle that a million gallons of Sherwin-Williams paint can't cover and your IRL will look like a night race at the county fair. How will you like Thursday night racing before the Friday night truck series, the Saturday Xfinity series, and the Sunday big race. That's what the IRL did for you.

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Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

Not until NOW. That is why NASCAR is in talks to absorb the decaying rectangle that a million gallons of Sherwin-Williams paint can't cover and your IRL will look like a night race at the county fair. How will you like Thursday night racing before the Friday night truck series, the Saturday Xfinity series, and the Sunday big race. That's what the IRL did for you.

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You assume much too quickly which side I preferred. I just am objective enough to realize that there was plenty of blame to go around.

I blame Facebook. Seriously. All of the forums here and at other sites seem to be WAY down on activity. People still talk about racing and what not, but they seem to be doing it from that annoying, intrusive, piece of spyware, called Facebook. On an F1 forum (not this one) that I lurk, I've noticed that the great majority of the posts are (somehow) coming in via Facebook. Maybe Mark could look into that. But none of the forums here have anything even close to the activity that they did when I first came here... 15+ years ago. Wow, time be a flyin'.

As for why I don't post on the Indy car forum any longer, it's because I have little to no interest in the series. I try to keep up with how my old favorite driver, Juan Montoya, is doing in the championship. But I just look up the results on Bing News. And once I get the results, I go on about my business. I generally just have nothing to say about the series because I'm just not engaged any longer. I'm only here today because of the terrible tragedy involving Justin Wilson.

The death of open wheel racing was predictable from the beginning of Tony George's take over. There is only one place for the blame.

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Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

The death of open wheel racing was predictable from the beginning of Tony George's take over. There is only one place for the blame.

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I'd give Mr. George something more than 50% of the blame, but the CART owners for sure didn't cover themselves with glory in the whole, sad, debacle. Talk about killing the golden goose - all concerned shared in that.

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Originally Posted by Starter

I'd give Mr. George something more than 50% of the blame, but the CART owners for sure didn't cover themselves with glory in the whole, sad, debacle. Talk about killing the golden goose - all concerned shared in that.

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All the gomers in Moron County Indianner were giddy with the prospect of being the opened wheeled version of NASCAR cause that's all open wheel racing was ever meant to be.

The CART owners did the responsible thing for their business, they just didn't count on the drunk mother to continue signing all the checks for drug addled son

In general all the comments have some element of truth. But it all started when Anton split the sport. Make no mistake about it - the IndyCar fan base has been decimated.

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Originally Posted by MarkC

In general all the comments have some element of truth. But it all started when Anton split the sport. Make no mistake about it - the IndyCar fan base has been decimated.

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Nice to see you posting here again. It's been a while.

Why?

Because TG Focked it all up

That particular day, and previously, I was reading a post of Jalopnik.com, and I was irritated.