Sebastien Ogier started with delay in power stage of Rally Sweden(after WRC2 Cars)his grip it was better than others drivers,so he score 4 points,what is your opinion about that??
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Sebastien Ogier started with delay in power stage of Rally Sweden(after WRC2 Cars)his grip it was better than others drivers,so he score 4 points,what is your opinion about that??
He is a little sissy.
Vote here
https://strawpoll.com/sckp34a3
if its allowed by the rules its fair... end of story.
Its not the first time someone plays tricks to get a benefit.
It's a clever move, it is also a clear lack of sportsmanship. Unfair, depending on the definition of unfair.
Are we sure he had the best starting position? He started after some RC2 cars which have different lines than wrcars.
Why Kris Meeke didn´t do the same? We have to change rules and stop playing with starting position.
I would have done the same. In the end the goal is to become champion, no matter what it takes.
History only remembers winners and dead people.
I’m not a big fan of Ogier but this was a great call by the team.
It’s just a shame that it’s resulted in almost as much sulking in the forums as it has from Seb throughout the rest of the event.
He did what no one else thought to do before. He had 1 point to lose, he risked and colected 4 points.
Unfair? The road conditions on the first day in the afternoon after the classics that have no place in WRC. Every year the same story. Not only for Ogier, but also for Tänak and Latvala.
In Sweden you never know when it is bad or good to start first.. This year bad.. Last year it would be good.. So he should stop crying about it..
What he did today.. was a smart move to collect point..
He will be yapping about road position in Mexico
Matt Wilson:
No rules were broken and those extra points could be crucial at the end of the year. I can remember the days when cars were stopping on the stages to drop time and not start first the next day. It’s a part of the sport.
Clever move congrats MSPORT !
They just used the rules to start in front of Neuville, but then head of course set them even behind 2 more R5 cars without TV coverage, I cant't read that that is fair and according to the rules ... ?
Don't think any rules were broken and it was clever move, but it's imo quite likely FIA will do some change to make this illegal, mostly for TV purposes.
Now on the powestage live TV they showed the podium and called results and completely missed that Ogier could come and take points. This is something they will for sure try to avoid. (it's also the reason why they move rally 2 cars in front in the regroup.
So I expect they add some rule that to take PS points in WRC car you need to start the stage before the rally leader.
im not an Ogier Fan at all i actually pray for him to have issues. and im always happy when he retires. (well coz he is too good) but this for me is a clever Move. he is a Championship defender. i think its a clever move.
They just used the rules to start after Paddon, so before Mikkelsen. I think it was mainly because he cannot do it so much later as maximum allowed penalty is 30 minutes. Regarding the starting order, there was specific rule in WRC regulations that promoter can choose order for power stage, but I cannot find it there now.
Q.s. was banned because it was a supremacy by some drivers/cars and I agree with that. However, the balance came back in 2017 with the new cars and more drivers that are now on same level. In my opinion, FIA could have recognized this situation and regain the Q.S. this year, but didn't happen.
Ogier opened a precedent, like as happened in the past with purposeful delays to not be first on the road on the next day. It is very likely that from now, more drivers could do the same in more rallies.
Clever and fair because it's within the rules, but yeah the FIA will maybe have to somehow change the rules slightly.
Otherwise Meeke could've/should've done the same today, and Evans also. For example in Mexico whoever are the three/four drivers in 10th/11th/12th etc (or drivers returning under super rally), could apply the same tactics to run last on the road instead of first.
Although one thing I would say is that Sweden is maybe exceptional circumstances, as the power stage wasn't run as a stage this morning (instead on Friday), whereas on most gravel rounds the power stage will be cleaned in the morning. Also won't be the effect of fresh snow falling etc.
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No rules were broken, clever play. No doubt the rules will be changed to prevent it but IMO the power stage concept isn't rallying anyway, so well done for ****ing with it. The promoters did this to themselves by creating such an artificial situation for the final stage and I hope they don't change it because it could have a negative impact on others lower down the order just trying to make a finish. But no doubt they will, because I don't think they care about anything beyond their top 12 cars being on TV.
Rant over. In summary, well done Ogier, played the rulebook well. I can't believe no-one has thought to try it before.
Not the fairest act but this week was indeed too hard. First the fresh snow, then unploughed stage, then RWD historics... Sweeping the snow for three consecutive days is too big punishment for a single person.
It won't be the same any soon though, so the only rule change I find necessary is for Rally2 to start first on the road.
Rules are rules.
But the concept of the superstage and point awarding for that one stage is for me somewhat strange.
that you after going off, can be awarded one more point as a team that comes in 8th in the whole rally is way to much.
1-3 to top 3 for the show, maybe, but I would have preferred 0,5- 1 - 2 points for top 3.
5 points is way to much for a driver that really should not be part of the rally anymore.
Are you out, you are out.
Where is AnttiK7?
I think this clearly shows the rules are broken: too many points for too many drivers in the powerstage so it makes it worth it to try something like this.
Not the nicest strategy but within the rules. I don't think this is worse than slowing down to get a better position back when the order wasn't reversed.
As an M-Sport fan I am clearly biased and therefore my opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt, so here goes.
Plenty of drivers who have poor events cruise on Sunday to save their tyres for the PS. You swallow a disadvantage in one place in hope to gain something somewhere else. It's tactics, it's not against any paragraph in the rulebook and it doesn't put anyone in danger so I suppose its fine.
I'm trying to imagine what my reaction would be if Hyundai or Toyota had done it and I guess I'd be fine with it. Hard to tell if that guess is accurate before it happens though.
to take things to extremes to exaggerate a point.
If everyone done what Ogier done.. they couldn't hold the Power Stages, because no-one wants to go first.
I'm sure there is a reg in the rulebook for unsportsmanlike conduct.
That would cover it.
Not many people would do that because you'd lose the points for your result. Imagine you have the chance to gather 3 or 4 points for your overall position. Would be crazy to throw that away cause if you have one mistake in the PS you wind up with nothing. It also usually never happens because Rally2 starters go last and normally drivers at the bottom of the Top10 are Rally2 starters. There were unusually few retirements in this event.
Exactly, it is all strategy, if the rules allow it, we should also accept it. Mikkelsen too sabotaged his PS points in Portugal 2016 if I'm not mistaken for a better road position for Poland, Tanak slowed down last year on PS to give Ogier more points. It is the strategy game all teams can play, and they do. In chess there is often similar situation - You sacrifice a bishop or horse to take the queen or check-mate.
Colin Clark:
Gaining competitive advantage in motorsport has very often through the years been about taking an interpretation on rules that are grey. That’s exactly what Seb Ogier did, and I have no issues with that whatsoever. Don’t shout at Ogier, shout at the rule makers.
I agree with that. We can all agree 2017 cars give drivers more equal performance, so now the situation is quite different from when the QS was banned. It's not like all of a sudden most drivers became as good as Ogier and can win rallies. The road conditions though are all the same. The sport rules must evolve together with the car rules.
Hello and goodbye
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Very smart & clever move - and entirely within the rules. It happens in all sports, you push the rules to the absolute limit, without going over them. I sometimes wonder whether some rally fans follow any other sports, such is their naivety.
If the FiA want to close this loophole, then it has to be for next year; changing rules in the season is a definite 'no no'. Though they might also want to look at the Rally2 regs as well.
Weren't also Hyundai also using some tactics in some rallye(s) last year in Neuville's favor, hiding behind excuses with technical issues, or how about illegal car for the road without side mirrors? M-Sport are at least honest with us.
It is tactics, but it's unsporting. Also, at least have the balls to do it as a man. From the GPS-trackers it seems like Ogier went on a small sideroad and hid behind a little farmhouse to not be seen. That would be extremely wimpy of him. To actually hide... (if this is indeed the actual thing)
However, they could agree to do just this. To make a point. It would cause havoc with TV-times, spectators etc. though.
Team orders in the second to last round of the championship is a different thing than to first hide, take a 4min10sec penalty to start late, then have the other guy in the team get a 4min20 sec penalty to gain back the spot in the second round of the championship.
There is a reason why very few bats an eye on team-orders at the end of the season... Same reason why many reacts to it at the start of the year!
Maybe he had a call of nature and was polite not to do it in front of everyone?:D
Anyway, Evans didn`t "lose enough time".
1 FRA S. OGIER FRA J. INGRASSIA M-SPORT FORD WORLD RALLY TEAM FIESTA WRC M RC1 TC19 LATE 4:10.0
2:00.0
GBR E. EVANS GBR D. BARRITT M-SPORT FORD WORLD RALLY TEAM FIESTA WRC M RC1 TC19A LATE 4:20.0
OA:
10. 2 GBR E. EVANS GBR D. BARRITT M-SPORT FORD WORLD RALLY TEAM M RC1 2:57:40.5 +1:43.0 +5:27.4
11. 1 FRA S. OGIER FRA J. INGRASSIA M-SPORT FORD WORLD RALLY TEAM M RC1 3:00:58.5 +3:18.0 +8:45.4