M-Sport chief rally engineer Chris Williams doesn't believe in the idea of R4 cars:
https://rallysportmag.com/m-sport-un...4-kit-formula/
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M-Sport chief rally engineer Chris Williams doesn't believe in the idea of R4 cars:
https://rallysportmag.com/m-sport-un...4-kit-formula/
If the new cars are based on the same FIA bulkhead & floor modification limits that apply to R5 cars then anyone should be able to build one in his shed & get an MSA Cat2 logbook. If you build one from a kit where more than 20 kits are supplied a year you may even manage to convince them it's a "Specialist Rally Car" and get a Cat1 book.
I know what you mean - I was writing somewhat hypothetically! Anyone trying to build a car to the FIA drawings themselves still has to climb a mountain to convince the MSA that what they've done is OK. As you say, with the trickle-down of old WRC & R5 cars added to the S2500 & R5+ options that are avaiable it's unlikely that we'll see much of either Dytko or R4 cars in the UK.
Firstly, let me introduce myself.
My name is Marv, and i'm a rally enthusiast and freelance journalist. In my Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/indonesianrallyfanbase/) I post quite a lot about the R4 because rallying at here is currently suffering, which one of the causes is lack of exciting cars on 4WD category, currently only fielding old Group N cars.
No people buy and run R5's at national championship because:
1. As the quote above said, the import tax is very expensive, which is 120%.
2. To made things worse, Indonesia goverment banned people from import used cars. Rally cars must run thru public roads on road section.
3. So, for example a new Skoda Fabia R5 price is (what i found from internet) €221,000. And with 120% tax = €265,200, which if converted into Rupiah means 4,2 billion, which is far too much.
4. Lack of manufacturers which build R5. From 9 manufacturers (both factory & privateer), there are only Hyundai, Peugeot, Proton and Mitsubishi whose sold their road cars in Indonesia (Ford withdrew last year). And all of them are quite inferior compared to Toyota & Honda, especially Peugeot & proton. That also means it's difficult to import spare parts.
There are no Mirage R5 at here, which the road car is quite popular on Indonesian road.
I, and many other people at here, is hopeful about R4 because we can build cars from stuff at here (Etios for example, which at here named Etios Valco). We know the complete car are still expensive, for example:
R4 kit + 120% tax (don't know the exact percentage): 108.000+22.000=130.000 euros
Brand new/used Toyota Etios Valco (at here Toyota's re-sell price are strong): 9500 euros
Manufacturing & development price: 6400 euros
So, the total=145.900 euros, or let say it 150.000 euros, which is 2.4 billions if converted to Rupiahs. That's quite a half fron R5 car completed with tax.
And there are some cars which cost even less than Etios Valco, like Honda Brio, which costs 7300 euros, or Datsun Go.
My calculations could be wrong though, but we try to save money as much as possible, and for us R4 is perfect. I admit that Oreca can cut something unimportant/too expensive to make it cheaper.
You still need to remember about motorsport pieces which are not part of R4 kit - dampers - good ones would be 10k, seats, belts, extinguishers, all smaller things, etc, etc.
I have a question btw. Is it possible to use used cars (as long the model is same as the new one), or even the older model, or is it must be a new one?
Hi Marv,
By your calculations the tax is not 120% but 20%. Is that tax (20%) additional to the VAT?
I found from Wikipedia that the VAT in Indonesia is 10%. Here in Finland it’s 24%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
Is it the same tax problem with AP4 cars?
I don't think it has to be a new one. Specific regulations for cars with R4 kit http://www.fia.com/file/58633/downlo...token=mPk3dYbt