Is that a prediction you're making? :p
Is that a prediction you're making? :p
Patiently remaining hopeful.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfzmeister
We thought that about Toyota too back in the early 2000s :s:erm:
Well, at least Alonso now knows how Jacques Villeneuve felt in 1999. "Welcome to the club!"
At least in BAR's defence - they had old outdated Supertec engines in '99, and once BAR got all-new Honda engines (sounds familiar?) for 2000 they were firmly in upper midfield scoring consistent points.
Yeah, Honda should have the ability to be at least in midfield. Let's say where currently Red Bull-Renault is. Though Red Bull (and Renault) itself may easily improve as well. Reaching top level and podiums is another matter though. Even reaching BMW Sauber level (twice third in WCC) takes some doing.
But usually in F1 there are only 1-2 teams doing most of the winning at the time, and others battling only for scraps. The only question is - who will these be at any period of time?!
I dont think the Honda engine is running at full power yet. Hence, Mclaren have not been able to unleash the full potential of the chassis. Once they sort out the reliability issues, they would easily be in the mix well into the top end of the midfield. How far up the order is yet to be seen. Mclaren-Honda could well be a surprise in 2016.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Things change very quickly in F1. Who ever thought Mercedes would ever beat Redbull to be world champions a few years back? I remember all that talk about Hamilton's move to Mercedes being daft. Here we are, Mercedes is king, Hamilton has won his 2nd drivers championship with Mercedes and most cannot see Maclaren-Honda ever winning a championship.
I think Hamilton's move at the time made sense, because everyone knew new engine regulations would come in 2014, and that works teams would have an edge. Of course fans didn't grasp it, but I think it seemed an obvious argument to insiders. So there was a game-changer, which suited Mercedes, even if no-one could perfectly predict, how good Mercedes could be, and of course nobody expected McLaren to fall off so badly.
So, what are the game-changers in 2017 technical regulations?
It would depend on the conclusion from the talks about the future of F1. Based on some of the things that has been proposed so far, the status quo at the sharp end is looking like it is going to remain the same, with Ferrari edging much closer or on par with Mercedes. The typical F1 dominance cycle seems typically 4 to 6 years. And the rate at which Ferrari is catching the Mercedes and the rate of mistakes that Mercedes is doing, it probably may be less than 4 years of dominance. They may be marginally ahead in 2016, but l would expect Ferrari to be fully on par with the Merc in 2017 with Mclaren-Honda in the mix as well. We have to keep an eye on Redbull which could also storm to the front if Renault gives them a decent engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
This is also more likely because of the reduced pre-season testing, which is only 8 days and no in-season testing.
The Redbull - Renault affair seem to be on its last leg. Particularly with the likelihood that Renault may be enticed to run their own works team. The Redbull team are unlikely to get the cream of the engines it has enjoyed in the past should Renault start their own team, hence they may be forced to look for engine elsewhere and may have a Mclaren-Honda experience where they disappear to the back of the grid while they transition to a new engine supplier.
That said, everyone is quietly expecting a change at the front with Ferrari or possibly Maclaren-Honda stealing the show. It would take something special for this to happen and may depend on the changes introduced to specifications for 2017.
This is what i found from as recently as early July of this year:Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
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....The full list of measures outlined by the FIA is as follows: "Increased restrictions on driver aids and coaching received unanimous support and will be rapidly implemented, starting from this year's Belgian Grand Prix - with a particular emphasis on race starts - and in 2016. These measures will bring back the driver in full control of the car, enhancing races excitement and unpredictability.
"Following the Austrian GP, an overhaul of the power unit penalties has been unanimously agreed and will be submitted to the F1 Commission via an express fax vote for an adoption at the World Motor Sport Council in Mexico City next week, together with changes to the exhaust system that will improve engine noise for 2016.
"Furthermore, it was agreed to allow an extra power unit per driver in the first year to any new manufacturer entering the championship and, for the sake of fairness, the measure will apply retroactively to Honda for the 2015 season.
Formula 1 title fight heads to Hamilton's stomping grounds
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"Mandate has been given to the FIA and FOM to propose a comprehensive set of measures for power unit development and cost of supply, including full review of the token system, increase in race fuel allowance, limits on the usage of engine dynamometers etc.
"Increased freedom of choice for tire compounds has been confirmed and the modalities are being finalized with Pirelli for 2016.
"A new set of regulations aimed at achieving faster and more aggressive looking cars for 2017, to include wider cars and wheels, new wings and floor shape and significantly increased aerodynamic downforce has been outlined and is currently being assessed by the teams.
"Several exciting and innovative changes to the qualifying and race weekend formats have also been discussed and are being evaluated by FIA and FOM for a 2016 introduction."
Great post kfzmeister. It would seem 2017 is about the quality of the aero package each team can muster. the engine differentiation in performance would remain with Merc and Ferrari, hopefully Honda possibly producing the main entertainment. Chassis efficiency is going to be key.Quote:
"A new set of regulations aimed at achieving faster and more aggressive looking cars for 2017, to include wider cars and wheels, new wings and floor shape and significantly increased aerodynamic downforce has been outlined and is currently being assessed by the teams.
It would be great if most of the regulations introduced in 2016 carry through to 2107 as well, particularly restriction on driver aid and tyre choice for teams. With the new tyre regulations for 2017 of wider tyres etc, it is looking like Michelin may be the tyre supplier for 2017. If you ask for a honest opinion from the drivers, l am sure most would say they quietly dislike the Pirelli tyres.
A new era of F1 is about to unfold in 2017. This would be great l think. It would be like the old times of wider cars, wider fat tyres, turbo engine and break neck raw speed. Now that is F1!
Aerodynamics important in the 2017 regs?
Then Red Bull must find a way to entice Newey back to full-time action then... Though James Key in the Toro Rosso seems pretty good too.