What countries have ASNs with currage to homologate 4wd cars that are cheaper than R4/R5?
Printable View
What countries have ASNs with currage to homologate 4wd cars that are cheaper than R4/R5?
It is fully up to the national body to approve a car type that FIA has not.
It cant be any worse than continue with the older cars in your F-Cup where some cars are pretty special (and very quick), than allowing the Mirage or the Dytko cars. Cars that are new and hopefully safer, if it was safety that was your argument?
In Norway we have a class for old Group A/N cars, where int homologation has expired, many nations has the same I guess. But costwise they are not cheap to run.
The whole reason to make a new R4 class was to make a class to replace N4, that had a very healthy 2nd hand market. Cheap entrance for drivers wanting to test 4wd.
FIA failed miserably, and R4 will be very close to R5 in new price, running costs to early to tell.
In track racing most countries have classes approved nationally, is that also not ok, and is that in your book Pantalex also "not playing by FIA rules"?
I don't believe that is strictly true. For example, AP4 is a good way to get near to R5 performance from a car, that is supported by a local manufacturer that otherwise wouldn't be in the sport... So that allows a competitor to compete, whereas otherwise they may not have been able to get enough sponsorship to compete if they had to be in an FIA car. Example here in NZ is the AP4 Holden Barina. Not a car you can buy anywhere else and without Holden footing the bill, I don't imagine the 2 guys driving them would be in the sport as they probably wouldn't be in a position to afford another car that is as fast. So by being able to introduce another manufacturer to the sport, it makes the sport stronger and gives opportunity to get exposure.
I don't believe the car dictates whether you can compete internationally later on. However you do have to use it for it's purpose, competing in the country that allows them and then realise to go to other countires you may have to rent a car. Ie going from national championship to ERC or JWRC etc, would require hiring a car to then take that step up. Fortunately things like JWRC make that a relatively easy process.
It's quite different in Europe and overseas. Here in Europe there is quite a huge number of used R5/S2000 available everywhere and it's for sure true that an ASN which keeps its rules in accordance with FIA helps its drivers to get abroad (and vice versa). On the other hand sometimes it's really hard to swallow what FIA invents and especially on the starter and really cheap level it's dificult to have someone competiting and follow FIA rules in the same time (as You know there is only one R1 available on the market for example).
So IMHO it's good if ASN allows local cars and applies some local rules BUT what I do think is that the top class in every national championship shall be FIA-compatible to avoid Spanish scenario from several years back when the top national league is totally isolated from the outer world - it means drivers don't go abroad and the national level slowly degrades because there is no influence from continental/world level.
Well starter was provocative, so I answered in same way.
Those self built 4wd cars are allowed in Finland, but they run in separate classes and canīt score any championship points. I have nothing against that, but it should stay like that.
Biggest problem to me is: How to keep these cars slower than R4/R5, because already now rules in Finland are wrong, you can make old car way too powerful/good, 2 examples:
FIN-R evo9 is more powerful than Mitsu WRC02 which is allowed in FIA spec only.
Old Civic EP3 FIN-R is more powerful than Civic R3, all R3īs are in garages because old model is quicker.
Also Polo with mitsu engine sounds stupid.
This year, R5 was promoted to top category in spanish main series (besides the popular 911’s, N+ cars were also restricted, leading to Mitsubishi team departure) but only a handful of them were used; besides, no official team entered the championship on a R5 car, although Suzuki and Renault decided to be there running N5 cars (despite being inferior, each day N5’s are getting closer to R5’s speed).
We all know that importers teams are always a plus, once they bring the media and their dealers net to the sport; it’s also obvious that on long series like the CERA, R5 cars are too expensive to run for most privateer drivers and teams.
ASN's must try to do the best for their series in order to have more teams and drivers competing and they don’t need to wait for FIA to give them a help; RFEA move to N5 didn’t harm the CERA, on the contrary, and if they decide to make them (or R4) more competitive towards R5, it’ll certainly help to make the series stronger.
Btw, nowadays young guys trying an international rally career don’t need to run top cars on their home series as they start competing at ERC or WRC level in a R2 car.
If peoples want to participate in WRC/ERC rallie they would find a way even owning and doing home events with national cars. WRC/ERC entry list would be way longer. But we don't have that situation now. If all international/national event reach maximum allowed number of entrants, like Rally Saaremaa, then ASN could ban national cars. Now, I think, should be allowed to drive with anything that has wheels, rollcages, and engine capacity bellow maximum limited; how to keep equality - it's another question. It's not the best way, but for now it's only way, to keep rallying alive. Without national cars, many of national/local events had only a few participants, it leads to less spectators, less money for organization, and then even less crews, etc. etc.
1st ever R-Lite passport for use in national events inside Finland is amended.
Car Dytko Polo with Evo9 engine.
Pic of document is in my twitter (@PanteAlex) document is originally from Kai Tarkiainen, race director of WRC Finland
Fiesta R1 it seems can still be ordered.
http://m-sport.co.uk/motorsport/rall.../cars-for-sale
with a good driver even a R1 can be quick. Anders Kjær at Rally Sørland in 2012.
http://motorsportfilmer.net/2012/ral...-ss6-fiesta-r1
But R1 never took of in any country. Could be a good class for 16-18 year old youth.
Back to 4wd classes for youngsters and gentleman drivers!
Here in Portugal we have some DS3 R1 in challenge and one Twingo R1
I think you can order the R1 kit from M-sport, bit you need the car yourself. Maybe its just kits to get these days?
One of the R1's in Norway is a kit, build into an imported fiesta ST from germany, was quite cheap he said.
Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk
Rallying is expensive. Those youngsters who want to do this professionally, mostly start "real" rallying with R2 cars. They also have special prizes to use in the international level. Sadly 95% of local championships are made for people who like rallying, but don`t want, can`t afford to do it on a bigger level. Some have so much money and competed in WRC Trophy for instance. From that remainign 5% 0.5% actually get somewhere, others dont`t have the money or skills. Banning proto-cars and national classes with old and affordable cars would probably kill the competition, as their buying and running is 2-4X more expensive than those self-made protos.
Base flight with Fiesta R1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suZVeq9kOJA
Guys, if you want to buy Ford Fiesta Proto, here is the price:
https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/for...-r5-proto-lhd/
All 3 of the private corporations that sanction Rally in Corporate Merikuh, and the 2 in Canada...
I am not sure if I would call it courage. Since they agree on so little else (each has it's own name for each of the various classes, each interperts the cage rules slightly but strictly different--if they happen to notice, )
And has all the best rally, Numbah 1!!! they have the best...all of them
But there is a question of this: in many places its not realistic to adopt classes which compel the big majortity..99,9% who have no intention of ever travelling with the expense of any of the FIA R classes when there are effectively zero people with the imagination, the fantasy that they will one day have a "career" ----which mean make a living earning money---at rally..
Sure some places there are enough rich guys or sons of rich guys who want to play but many parts of the world there aren't enough...so its imposed 3-4x the expense plus extra organiser budget enforcing pointless class...
USA and Canada together--no point....South America--Argentina and Chile, no point.
Oz and NZ no point.
So what development has happened since they where 35 000 euro, like this one:
http://www.rallysales.com/ad/vw-polo-proto/
https://www.facebook.com/ProtoCars/
How in the whole world can some believe that it's possible to build a 4wd that is both fast, and cheap to build, and in addition durable and cheap to operate.
And this car should be significantly cheaper than r5, and almost as fast and durable.
If you do not know, Santa does not exist.
Who said anything about fast. What is fast anyway; is R2 or R3 fast, or only R5 and WRCar?
For talents on their way up it does not matter much, as long as all cars are equally slow/fast. Then the driver talemts emerge.
As it was in Norwegian Subaru Cup. Equal cars that you could both rally and racing with, at a reasonable price.
The Dytko cars could serve the same purpose for instance in a Nordic Cup. Meant to develop drivers, with coaching both for driving on surfaces, racing on track, media training, mental training and so on. This means that the 4 ASNs must agree on rules and regulations. Not easy, but doable.
You just answered Yourself. The cars are competitive only for a cup of same cars. But for something like that You need something very cheap and these cars are not cheap.
There is way better way for young talents to develop themselves. Take much cheaper R2 and go to proper competition in JERC. From there it's much easier to get into R5 than from some proto car.
There is different situation overseas but in Europe there is little sense in buying such car (except when there are very special rules made for them like in Spain).
Don't listen to Coach2, but I've got bad news.. Santa is using a 208 T16 this year so there's no way he's going to make it round the world without suffering transmission failure or somesuch :(
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRpCUYpX0AASVTz.jpg
But when he finally arrives the presents he gives this year seem worth the wait :D
https://www.facebook.com/volkswagenm...3230900734038/
Does it exist such a 4 cylinder 3000ccm, 5000E
http://www.motortrend.com/news/norwe...-sti-cup-cars/
the car was a more or less standard Impreza, different shocks, standard diffs, stronger gearbox if my memory serves me.
Original prize was as far as I remember 280 000 Nok. Today just divide by 10.
Many drivers used the cup as a springboard. Mikkelsen, Aasen, Pontus Tidemand, among others.
why should it be a 4 cylinder?
that's the whole point. pushing stuff to the limit is very expensive, using commercially available stuff that nowhere near the limit is much cheaper.
but of course, if your competitors use the same engine, but start tuning it, it's ruined.