From 2011 onwards, manufacturers will not be able to homologate "traditional" S2000 cars but only "S1600Ts".
So which route will IRC go? Stick with the old formula, move to the new one or change to a different one altogether (R3T?)
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From 2011 onwards, manufacturers will not be able to homologate "traditional" S2000 cars but only "S1600Ts".
So which route will IRC go? Stick with the old formula, move to the new one or change to a different one altogether (R3T?)
Interesting question and thread... :confused:
I suppose this is the crossroads now. In that car manufacturers can decide which route the want to take for relatively similar budgets and pick between the WRC or IRC. You would figure the WRC holds the most commercial value. I'm sure through logistics and development it will be more expensive. But it is much more of a coherent championship than the IRC with all rounds counting towards points etc.
But if the IRC wants these new cars (Citroen/Prodrive project) they will need to open up their regs. It might be a case of evolve or die...
Rather simplistically and naiievely I would say that no manufacturer actually has a 1.6T - Citroen (and I guess Prodrive Mini) will have one, but as it stands IF IRC stick their ground to S2000 it could leave WRC with only Citroen DS3 1.6T. Therefor if no other manufacturer other Citroen produces a 1.6T the WRC dies........
Can someone clarify for me as I don't understand...at all.
S2000 is dying for 2011, meaning ALL cars will be 1600T, correct? As an amateur like myself, surely S2000 is better than 1600T as it is a higher number? Or does the Turbo make that big a diference? What will the order be of cars in 2011? 1600T then S2000 then WRC then GpN is it?
Also, the new S2000 Cup in 2010 will involve what? And how does the S-WRC fit into all this as well as the Super 2000 Cup for Teams?
I'm so darn confused. It's been a long week...
Sorry, I get the S-WRC is for drivers, while the other one is for teams. Bit slow on my front!
Loads of manufactuers are creating small, turbo powered engines for their cars, its the future. They have reduced emisions and better MPG while keeping the same amount of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
VW have already got a very good 1.6 GT engine while ford are very advanced with the development of their own :)
I meant rally engine - sure small capacity petrol (turbo) engines are defiantely the way forward. The 2 litre engine is for the history books. My concern was / is which manufacturers WILL join WRC? It should be OK if VW drop the 1.6T engine in a Skoda, or any VW brand, Mini, Citroen, and even Ford too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyc85
And I suppose even if the manu's did opt against the 1.6T the FIA just remove the homologation ruling. In which case the whole thing could have been implemented with ease 3 years earlier!
But I hope the teams will embrace 1.6T and all move in a collective single direction. In the short-term the FIA did the best thing by not penalising the existing manufacturers. Get them all competing in the WRC and then start fiddling about to improve the regs.
VAG don't have a 1.6T, but they have 1.4T they could bore out or 1.8T they could sleeve down.
The issue here is that from 2011 manufacturers cannot homologate new 2 litre S2000s so IRC will have to change formula or use only old cars.
My confusion was that I thought the homologation laws from 2011 mandating 1.6T was just for the WRC. But is it in fact the FIA demanding this for all of rallying. Hence no one has a choice?
Correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
I wonder why...
Megaidiocy ... as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
S2000 is the best formula now ! I hope IRC says ok FU we keep going on, you bury your own rally championship alone
money money money.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
In a couple of years or from 2011, there will be no IRC only WRC. IRC has no carmaterial except from older and older S2000 cars and that means it will die sooner or later after 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helstar
The manus has to adapt to the new regulations meaning they all in the end have cars for WRC.
It´s not money, it´s more environmental thing...
Where does it say that there will be no new S2000 homologations from 2011 and onwards ?
IRC can do whatever it wants. They can run 1.6T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I agree.. They can rename it to the Eurosport challange.. It will be equal publicity.. 1.6T should be allowed in any championship..
I wouldn´t think FIA will let IRC continue in current form (a worldwide serie) as equal with WRC. Maybe as European championship (ERC) possibly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
WTCC was started by Eurosport events so FIA won't tell anything against IRC.. It's only preasure on manufacturers..
OK let´s wait and see... only it takes a couple of years. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
As stated above FIA can't do anything ! If (example) every manufacturers leave WRC and go IRC, then WRC championship is dead ;) !Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Why would they all move to the irc? With the new regs if you want to go rallying you have to make a 1.6T car. Surely the car needs FIA homologation to be viable? The budgets are similar so why would you then choose to go to the lesser irc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helstar
People who still think the irc is going to take over in the longterm. Well now would probably be a good time to wake up.
I hope that manufacturers will be allowed to homologate the new S1600Ts without having to sign up for the WRC, otherwise the FIA have just done the sport of rallying in general a great disservice.
I wrote "EXAMPLE", figures...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
So it’ll be S2000/1.6T…finally after almost 3 years FIA decide it!
Sure there are still some doubts – level of 1.6T engine tuning, existence of aerodynamic package, etc – but setting a definitive guideline it’s crucial in order to attract new manufacturers.
Expanding S2000/1.6T category to all rally international series can also be a major step into WRC and IRC complementary, witch seems to be a newly FIA concern and somehow could be linked with the 2011 calendar presentation delay.
Rally future will only get damage from the ISC/Eurosport rivalry, so it’s more than time to establish the necessary adjustments in order to have both organizers working together on one strong international rally series.
ISC can not do what Eurosport events can and that's live show 'cos nobody wants to buy it..
...even so, ISC has the WRC label.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
A bit of humour from the google translation of 2011 S2000/1.6T article by rallyemagazine.de
"The Ford Fiesta will be the last with two-liter S2000 vacuum cleaner. The FIA decided at the last meeting of the World Council that in 2011 only to be homologated S2000 cars that are powered by a 1.6-liter turbo engine. Learn more about technical specifications of the WRC's successor will be announced in the coming days.
Simultaneously, the World Council reaffirmed that allowed both Super2000 variants (suckers and Turbo), and Group N cars in the WRC in 2011 and regional championships start."
:D
They definately have to rename the cars then. A 1.6 Liter-Turbo is no Super 2000 anymore.
Yeah agreed. Obviously the upgraded cars will just be renamed WRC's. But the entry level stuff needs a new name really.Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
Exactly! I do wonder whether the WRC has fallen so far that it impossible to get back in the mainstream. For a lot of countries, Motorsport is F1. End of!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
If there will be no more homologations and upgrades of the current fleet of S2000 cars, it would make sense to convert them to 1600T spec, but not WRCar.
Do FIA have thought about this, or will they ditch 5-6 manufacturers of good rallycars ?
I think R4 is way to go for IRC. i hope R4 isnt only EVO and Impreza.
Maybe it's time for the new Focus RS AWD!? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfan+
They have no suitable 4x4 stock system. I very much doubt they would invest into expensive development of something close to Evo or Impreza. Also there is no suitable production engine in Ford portfolio. 2.5T I5 isn't useful for rallying.
It seems to be possible by the 2010 group N regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/E39B75C41C619A90C125774C002CE6F4/$FILE/254%20(10-11).pdf
page 4, b) supercharged engines.
Yes, but Ford 2.5T is not supercharged but turbocharged.
The FIA definition of "supercharging" includes both mechanically driven superchargers and turbochargers. See 2.3.2 on page 4 here:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public...10)-111209.pdf
Yeah sorry, I mixed the definition of super versus turbo charging as wkikipedia also does.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze
Some examples from wikipedia:
A supercharger is an air compressor used for forced induction of an internal combustion engine .
The greater mass flow-rate provides more oxygen to support combustion than would be available in a naturally-aspirated engine, which allows more fuel to be provided and more work to be done per cycle, increasing the power output of the engine.
Power for the unit can come mechanically by a belt, gear, shaft, or chain connected to the engine's crankshaft.
When power comes from an exhaust gas turbine a supercharger is known as a turbosupercharger[1] - typically referred to simply as a turbocharger. Common usage restricts the term supercharger to mechanically driven units.
And…..
Supercharger drive types
Superchargers are further defined according to their method of drive (mechanical—or turbine).
[edit] Mechanical[edit] Exhaust gas turbines
- Belt (V-belt, Synchronous belt, Flat belt)[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Direct drive[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Gear drive[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Chain drive[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
And……
- Axial turbine[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Radial turbine[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
Supercharging versus turbocharging
Positive-displacement superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine, and, in many applications, are less efficient than turbochargers. In applications for which engine response and power are more important than any other consideration, such as top-fuel dragsters and vehicles used in tractor pulling competitions, positive-displacement superchargers are very common.
There are three main categories of superchargers for automotive use:
- Centrifugal turbochargers — driven from exhaust gases.[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Centrifugal superchargers — driven directly by the engine via a belt-drive.[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
- Positive displacement pumps — such as the Roots, Twin Screw(Lysholm), and TVS(Eaton) blowers.[/*:m:1sd9hx82]
Ford is working on a new Focus RS but instead of using the current car’s 2.5-liter five-cylinder turbo and advanced RevoKnuckle front-wheel drive system and Quaife differential, the next-generation of the high-performance Focus RS will feature a revolutionary hybrid system offering the option of all-wheel drive (AWD). The hybrid system will team a 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbo Ford EcoBoost engine, peak output should remain around the 300 horsepower mark. As strange as it may seem that Ford would make such a radical departure for its Focus RS, it’s a move Mitsubishi is planning to do for the next-generation of its Lancer Evolution series, the Evo XI. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze