Race 14 - 2023 Dutch GP [Zandvoort]

https://www.grandprixgrandtours.com/...-Dutch-F1.webp

F1 resumes after a short summer break at the seaside town of Zandvoort. The commencement of the second half of the 2023 season in the Netherlands underlines the theme of the season so far. The Verstappen party train continues as a proper challenge is nowhere in sight. The Dutchman is steamrolling his way to his third F1 championship title it appears. Clearly, the second half of the season is not about who is going to win the 2023 F1 driver and Constructor titles; for that, it is resoundingly going to be Max Verstappen and Redbull. But it is going to be about the increasingly tense battle for the runners-up position. Which driver is going to claim the second position and which team is going to finish second in the constructor's leaderboard?

Mathematically, we would probably think Sergio Perez would claim the second spot in the driver's title, but his recent undulating run of form suggests this may not necessarily be the case as Alonso and Hamilton are merely 40-ish points away from the Mexican. Perez's future in Redbull would essentially be determined by the outcome of this battle for second in the driver's championship. It suffices to say, he would automatically lose his seat if he does not finish 2nd in the driver's championship. We shall leave the question of who would replace him to the middle of the second half of the season.

On the constructors front, Mercedes has put a decent 51 points gap between itself and Aston Martin its nearest challenger. To compound the misery for Aston Martin, Ferrari has closed up to a slim one point behind. While Mclaren seems to be on the ascendance, Aston Martin seems to be drifting backward in what is looking like a slow descent into quicksand. While this picture does not tell the full story of this everchanging section of the front-end of the grid, we are looking forward to some resurgence from Aston Martin in the second half of the season. As we are expecting Mclaren to understand their car better and push further up the ranking. Hence, Mercedes have their work cut out to stay ahead as the development battle in this second half seems to favor the underdogs such as Aston Martin and Mclaren. Ferrari remains a dark horse in all of this. If Ferrari can get their act together, they have the potential to storm into the coveted second position in the constructors. The real excitement of the rest of the season lies firmly in this group fighting for the second spots in the driver and constructor's championships. It certainly would not be about how fast Verstappen can go in the Redbull, as any of the drivers fighting in the battle for second in the constructor's championship may well produce similar performances given the Redbull car. The real excitement is in the close battles and that is firmly in the fight for second. The F1.5 championship!

May the best team win!

Who is your money on to finish as runners-up to Redbull? Can Mclaren do a Houdini?

Mercedes were looking pretty good for the win last year before Alpha Tauri & RBR fixed the race by causing the safety car. We'll see what happens this year.

Qualifying is going to be fun. Zandvoort in the wet is having Monaco type condiitions. Margins are so tight, chances of hitting the wall greater than usual.

The Boss gets spanked, Sarge into q3. The Williams looks pretty fast.

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Sarge messed up! :dork:

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I thought for sure Alex had that podium start wrapped up, but George pipped him in the end!

The top 6 spots all represented by differing manufacturers. I'm sure we will still here that the new regs haven't changed anything though.

I will admit that even with the changing conditions and tricky track for Q1 and Q2, I'm shocked to see both Williams cars in the top 10.


Good to see Lawson get a shot in the car, though it could be career ending for Ricciardo if his injury takes too long to heal. No sense in putting Nyck back in the car when they already know what he can do, and hopefully Lawson gets at least a couple races to see what he can get done in that seat.

Dawg.............Red Bull really screwed checo :laugh:

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Can Alonso win this race?

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Dawg.............Red Bull really screwed checo :laugh:

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Not so much after all.

Absolutely brilliant race by Fred.
Brilliant race by Fred.

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What a race! Man of the race is going to be a hard one to choose. But l think it is one for the following:- Albon, Alonso and Hamilton.

Albon for putting the Williams in the points ahead of faster cars. Alonso for thinking on his feet to put the Aston Martin in 2nd place. Hamilton for fighting from 13th to 6th.

That said, Gasly and Sainz deserve a mention. Gasly for sucking up the pressure from the Ferrari of Sainz. And Sainz for sucking up the pressure from Hamilton.

Nine in a row for Verstappen. History was made today and we were here to see it. Yeepee!!!

I think Mercedes screwed Russell today. From potential podium position to Zero. Thumbs down Mercedes!

Imagine Russell in the mix for the restart, the podium may have been very different.

Driver of the day should be Albon, he was great once again.

:stareup:

No......Fred

Albon started 4th, Fred started 5th
Fred finnished 2nd, Alb' finnished 8th
Fred gained 3 places Alex lost 4

.............I disagree.......sorrry! :dork:

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I think this race is a postcard to Redbull from its dumped drivers. Two of their recently discarded drivers; Albon and Gasly showed they had much more to offer if nurtured properly. It was a weird race, even so, Gasly outperformed Perez to finish on the podium. Albon beat Perez in qualifying 4th to Perez's 7th.

This is one of those occasions that produce evidence to show their approach to testing rookies might be flawed. You might argue that Verstapenn is thriving in the Redbull system so should anyone else. But Verstappen was nurtured from a very young age to become a world champion by his ex-formula One driver dad. He was prepared for Redbull from his Karting days. Hence he is an exception per se.

In life, some people are late bloomers, others are fast bloomers. Albon, Gasly, and De Vries could have become big assets for Redbull if given the right support, l think.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

:stareup:

No......Fred

Albon started 4th, Fred started 5th
Fred finnished 2nd, Alb' finnished 8th
Fred gained 3 places Alex lost 4

.............I disagree.......sorrry! :dork:

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It is not about the number of places gained. It was about how well each driver maximized their opportunities this weekend. If Alonso had obeyed the call to pit, he would have certainly not finished in 2nd. Russell who obeyed the call to pit finished well down the order.

On Albon, the Williiams lack the true pace to be in top ten positions. Keeping 4th was an impossible challenge. The real challenge was to finish in the points by the end of the race. He did that ahead of much faster cars, which l think was a remarkable achievement.

Hamilton on the other hand was 18th at one point, but somehow managed to bring the car home in 6th position. It was a remarkable drive., The 6th position masks the true excellence of that drive. It is also an indication that Mercedes has made a step forward. They may be as fast as the Mclaren at the moment.

I don't think the Williams was slow in this race. Alb' just got punked by Fred on the first lap! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Tazio

I don't think the Williams was slow in this race. Alb' just got punked by Fred on the first lap! :laugh:

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Yea, that was a great pass. The Williams was quick at Zandvoort but not as quick as the Aston Martin on pure pace.

Was interesting how Redbull took the race win away from Perez. It was a smooth shuffle.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Yea, that was a great pass. The Williams was quick at Zandvoort but not as quick as the Aston Martin on pure pace.

Was interesting how Redbull took the race win away from Perez. It was a smooth shuffle.

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Yeah..........they played checo like a stradivarius!

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Attachment 2475


Overall I thought it was a very fun race to watch. The changing weather creates most of it, and usually does with races like this. In all fairness to those that got it wrong as much as right, the track was drying so quickly that staying out in the rain might have made sense if the rain just came through in a quick band. But in any case, in both qually and the race the changing track spiced things up, and wow.... so many people dropping way back and then recovering in many cases.

As is getting usual, RB and Max at the helm were in their own league. Checo's side of the garage made the right call when the rain came, but no car on the track today was even close to matching Max. As for Checo getting played, I saw it as risk minimization myself. Max was quicker, and he was going to pass Checo regardless. By pitting him first it avoided any potential on track drama and saved Checo the embarrassment of the pass.

As for DOTD, I don't vote on such things but probably would have given it to Gasly or Albon myself. Fred put in a great drive, but we expect great drives from Fred, Lewis, and Max. And he put the car where it could and should be, as he always does. But for Gasly and Albon to put the cars where they did IMHO took more effort by both the drivers and teams. Granted the Williams is getting better, but really it was put where it shouldn't have made it in qually, and Fred could have done better there. Not to mention the fact that compared to Alonso, Alex may as well be a rookie in terms of experience.


As for the car comparisons, I don't know if this race proved much of anything that we didn't already know. AMR might have clawed forward some, McLaren blew it in strategy, Ferrari got strategy wrong for Leclerc AGAIN, Williams seems to be making progress, and the RB with Max at the wheel can't be touched. I think overall the AMR, Merc, and Ferrari are fairly equal cars but the drivers inconsistencies and/or poor strategy calls are making the performance delta seem greater than it is. McLaren are also close, but it seems they are often more on or off depending on the track type. Their drivers are doing well but the team can fail them at times.

I agree with Tazzy , that Fred was best in that race .

The moment he heard the rain was coming , he knew he didn't have to do any saving of tires , so took off like a shot , taking the fastest lap at the perfect moment .
That sly move is a perfect example of what he does on a regular basis .

He was asking the team to watch others in the corners ahead of him for cues on how wet it was .
To just be able to process explaining the idea to the team , then thinking about the data coming back while driving one of these cars in the wet is an unbelievable thing to me .


Nothing against anyone else , but it was Alonso in my opinion .

:stareup:

Baggie, that is why Fred is commonly referred to as "The Wiley Old Fox". With very few exceptions he is a man among boyz. I think this was his best race of the season, and although there were other very good drives, I think 'Zo really deserved DOTR

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I agree with Tazzy , that Fred was best in that race .

The moment he heard the rain was coming , he knew he didn't have to do any saving of tires , so took off like a shot , taking the fastest lap at the perfect moment .
That sly move is a perfect example of what he does on a regular basis .

He was asking the team to watch others in the corners ahead of him for cues on how wet it was .
To just be able to process explaining the idea to the team , then thinking about the data coming back while driving one of these cars in the wet is an unbelievable thing to me .


Nothing against anyone else , but it was Alonso in my opinion .

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To be fair, Alonso got the most out of his race than any other driver in the race. So he is my man of the race too. But what a race eh? Every driver iin the top ten drove their pants off, l think.

I think Monza is going to throw up some surprises. The battle for 2nd may shuffle up again. Aston is looking fast but are they fast enough? The Mercedes is showing an increase in performance. Alpine was fast enough to keep Ferrari behind. I wonder if Ferrari has drifted backward.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

To be fair, Alonso got the most out of his race than any other driver in the race. So he is my man of the race too. But what a race eh? Every driver iin the top ten drove their pants off, l think.

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Yes, a very entertaining race.
The Boss, Gas', Alb', 'ax, and even
'los had really great races. I can't include Checo however, he made a couple mistakes. I just don't know how Fred overtook Zho so effortlessly after their pitstops. It was like he let him through.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Yes, a very entertaining race.
The Boss, Gas', Alb', 'ax, and even
'los had really great races. I can't include Checo however, he made a couple mistakes. I just don't know how Fred overtook Zho so effortlessly after their pitstops. It was like he let him through.

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If we have it in order of top three, this is how l would put it now:-

1. Alonso
2. Gasly - 12th to 3rd; that was some driving
3. Albon