Thread: Why is Indycar still using Ethanol

Starter is correct. From what I can remember, there was a good deal of marketing support from ethanol producers (both in the U.S. and in Brazil), while there was no kind of support from methanol producers. In fact, just sourcing methanol became something of an issue around 2004-2005, I believe. TotalFina (Elf) was a brief supplier to CCWS, but then I think they dropped out and were replaced by some company I'd never heard of.

Whether ethanol is a good alternative fuel source or not, the ethanol industry is one of the few big sponsors that the ICS has. So unless Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, Total or some other big oil company is set to come in and heavily sponsor the series, I'd say that ethanol is here to stay.

IIRC, Forsythe was talking about using E85 in the next revision of the XFE engine

I never saw commercials for methanol during a race.

why wood you expect to

I never saw food riots in Mexico blamed on methanol

Currently the ICS does not have an official fuel sponsor. They are buying Ethanol at the market price

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

IIRC, Forsythe was talking about using E85 in the next revision of the XFE engine

Good memory. For the 2003 sports car season, Cosworth took a 2.65 liter (CCWS) XD, revised it and created a bio-ethanol powered endurance engine, code-named the XDE. It was housed in a Reynard 01Q prototype.

Here's a link to their Sebring attempt with Bryan Herta at the wheel:

ALMS » Early exit for Team Nasamax

But even with the teething issues, Cosworth clearly had a good baseline for running ethanol. It was an interesting (early) concept. Too bad they weren't able to do anything with it.

BTW, I don't know about the financial arrangement, but Sunoco features itself as the Official Fuel Partner of INDYCAR and Firestone Indy Lights. After Total stopped supplying methanol to CART/CCWS, it was almost like a secret as to who was supplying the fuel. I've had an easier time buying moonshine than finding out where that methanol came from... not that I've ever bought moonshine, mind you.

If er start producing E85 from waste, the picture Willy change.
If waste from the wood industry, and other thingsmwe would throw away anyway, E85 will do the planet a favour!

There are trials in Norway to make E85 from several types of garbage, so lets see.

Originally Posted by Sulland

If er start producing E85 from waste, the picture Willy change.
If waste from the wood industry, and other thingsmwe would throw away anyway, E85 will do the planet a favour!

There are trials in Norway to make E85 from several types of garbage, so lets see.

There are some fascinating things going on with cellulosic ethanol and cellulosic bio-diesel these days. The issue seems to be one of yield vs. cost, from what I've read.

But let's be honest here: seldom has any form of Indy Car been at the forefront of automotive technology. And even when it has, what has ever really been gained from it? There may be some rare exceptions. But generally speaking, Le Mans and prototype racing is where the automotive OEM's have put their resources to tackle these sorts of issues. IMO, what Indy Car needs most is sponsorship (and viewership). Whether the check writer is "clean and green" or not, Indy Car is a beggar, not a chooser. They better take whatever check they can get and run to the bank and cash it... don't even take the chance of depositing it. Although Audi and Toyota made a big splash at Le Mans this year, with their alternative fueled, hybrid vehicles, I don't think that most fans outside of that type of racing really care so much about fuel types, tire compounds and brands or whatever. I think it mainly comes down to whoever will write a check and (hopefully) run some TV ads featuring the series and its drivers. Right?

Red Bull and Monster (and all the other energy drinks) are just overly-hyped, sugary, caffeinated heart busters that are bad for you. But if they want to sponsor some cars or some races, I say bring 'em on! I'd say the same for Glock pistols, Playboy magazine, Jack Daniels, Goldman Sachs or any other "controversial" sponsor of questionable social value. Show me da money!

^^You will have to settle for MavTV for now

Interesting read on the subject.


Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is

One important safety point regarding alcohol-based fuels (both methanol and ethanol) as compared to petrol (gasoline) is that as the alcohol dissolves in water you can put a fire out with a water hose.

I have read the Gordon Kirby article, and this Jim McGee does not sound like he's on the up-and-up.

"Natural gas is anti-knock. It doesn't detonate like fossil fuels, whether it's alcohol or whatever."

Natural gas is a fossil fuel, alcohol is not.