Texas- Firestone 550 Race Thread

**Nikki Katz** · 10th Jun 12, 18:53

This was a good race, though a little low on crowd numbers. I hope they return next year, the schedule's looking thin already!

**heliocastroneves#3** · 10th Jun 12, 20:11

Originally Posted by 00steven

Why don't you go watch the IR...oh wait never mind, you can't anymore.

I was an IRL fan before the merge, and I can say that IndyCar is way better than the IRL was... Give him a chance, he probably has to get used to those kind of oval races. However, I cannot really understand it because the race we had yesterday at Texas, reminds me very much from the IndyCar races at Kentucky Speedway. Maybe they always went full throttle there, but they went 3-wide often and they never produced pack racing. It's so sad that we lost venues like Kentucky and Chicagoland but that's not the fault of Randy, no.. That's the fault of those great promoters....

**FormerFF** · 11th Jun 12, 02:08

The attendance there has been declining the last few years, I'm not sure why, as the racing has been, and continues to be, quite good. Nice for Wilson and Coyne, gutted for Graham, but I think he did what he had to do, the car just slid wide that one turn. Looked like Justin was faster and if Graham had backed off at all, Justin would have been by in a flash.

**Marbles** · 11th Jun 12, 02:53

What an absolute treat to watch. I miss my pack racing... NOT! Drivers with an opposite lock full of uncertainty is a lot more fun to watch than throttle pedals carpet taped to the floor. Tough for Rahal but it was hard rooting for one over the other with this bunch at the front. Rahal truly impressed with his run to the front and Hinchcliffe duelling with the Penkse boys has got me whole new respect for him. But Wilson and Coyne outshone them all. Great stuff!

Is Kendall in and Dallenbach out?

**DBell** · 11th Jun 12, 03:46

Originally Posted by Marbles

What an absolute treat to watch. I miss my pack racing... NOT! Drivers with an opposite lock full of uncertainty is a lot more fun to watch than throttle pedals carpet taped to the floor. Tough for Rahal but it was hard rooting for one over the other with this bunch at the front. Rahal truly impressed with his run to the front and Hinchcliffe duelling with the Penkse boys has got me whole new respect for him. But Wilson and Coyne outshone them all. Great stuff!

Is Kendall in and Dallenbach out?

Good post. I agree, I thought it was a good race and I admit I was wrong in that I didn't think this type of race was possible at a place like Texas for IndyCar. Hope this is the end of pack racing.

I think TK was just in for this race. Pretty sure Wally still does Nascar races for TNT and I think they had the Pocono race.

**anthonyvop** · 11th Jun 12, 20:38

So apparently you can cheat with the aero, get caught and all you get is a slap on the wrist if you are a popular win.

IndyCar announced penalties stemming from post-race technical inspection of the June 9 Firestone 550 at Texas Motor Speedway.

The No. 18 car Dale Coyne Racing car driven by Justin Wilson was fined $7,500 and docked five entrant points for not complying with the sidepod top deck aerodynamic element of Rule 14.6.4.13.

Two teams penalized for post-Texas race technical infractions

F.Y.I.

I looked for rule 14.6.4.13. and it isn't in the 2012 IndyCar rule book. Was it an update I missed?

**jackmart** · 12th Jun 12, 03:36

^^That is crap!! You can cheat, keep the points, the win and the money? I think it should be given to Graham.

**DBell** · 12th Jun 12, 04:43

Originally Posted by jackmart

^^That is crap!! You can cheat, keep the points, the win and the money? I think it should be given to Graham.

I think if you read the Speed article, you won't feel so outraged.

INDYCAR: Series Doles Out Fine For Texas Winner Wilson, Dings Carpenter

From Speed:

In a bulletin outlining the specific aero components allowed for Texas, INDYCAR banned the use of top deck "in-fills," which were legal at the Indy 500, but were taken off the list of options for Texas as part of a package intended to reduce pack racing.

The bolt-on items, which mount between the exhaust outlets and rear wheels, close the gap between the sidepod and the large ramps which channel air around the rear tires. The pieces reduce a few pounds of drag, but did not make enough of a difference for Wilson to win the race because of their inclusion on the No. 18 Dallara DW12-Honda.

A clearer picture of the in-fill piece, right, shown here on Charlie Kimball's car at Indy. (Photo: Marshall Pruett)

It's also possible a bit of communication between the team and the series led to their use in the 228-lap race.

This writer captured the photo above of the in-fills on Wilson's car before the first practice session at Texas on Friday, and it's believed the car went through technical inspection three times before the race with the units installed.

Ed's transgression was a bigger one for me. The wicker bill can make a huge differnece and his was taller than the 1/8th inch allowed

**SoCalPVguy** · 12th Jun 12, 06:18

Please somebody tell me why the #18 car was not disqualified for using unapproved aero parts that enhanced performance ? Did TGBB come back when I wasn't paying attention ?

was it because it passed tech inspection and the circus clowns didn't catch it after 3 tries ???

**Mark in Oshawa** · 12th Jun 12, 08:18

Tech inspection missed it.....I would say that in that case, they cant have clean hands dqing him. Also, note that all those fans who went to the race saw Justin Wilson win. The other guys (NASCAR) have always allowed people to keep their wins even when the car fails tech. Now one can argue about the value of this, but over a little panel in this case, I think a penalty but not taking away the win is valid.

**heliocastroneves#3** · 12th Jun 12, 10:52

I'm glad Wilson keeps the win, I rather see him winning than Graham Rahal... He did not deserve it because he made contact with the wall, period.

**Anubis** · 12th Jun 12, 12:56

If the car went through tech inspection in that configuration, it's entirely possible the team made a genuine oversight and had just forgot to take the part off post-Indy, so I think labelling them cheats is a bit premature. It is also possible they knew exactly what they were doing of course, but we'll never know. If the series feels it wasn't performance enhancing and are happy to deal with it as a technical rather than sporting matter, I don't see why Wilson should be DQ'd. Granted, their hand was somewhat forced by failing to spot the infringement prior to the race, so it may well be a face saving exercise with some choice "we're watching you" words behind the scenes, but I'd suggest a DQ would invite counter claims of "hang on, it was a genuine mistake and you declared it legal, you can't take the win away". The question I'd ask is what benefit did this part give at Indy that was deemed not applicable for Texas? Was it purely aero, or was there another function?

Just think, this was a minor part of a spec aero kit. Just imagine the fun and games we'll have with policing the rules if/when the new aero kits are rolled out

**anthonyvop** · 12th Jun 12, 13:55

Originally Posted by DBell

I think if you read the Speed article, you won't feel so outraged.

You think wrong.

Marshall Pruett claims that only "The pieces reduce a few pounds of drag," which is what IndyCar Tells him and is not based on any real data. And even if true a few pounds of down-force on a 1.5 mile oval can be worth 100th's of not 10th's of a second a lap and over the course of a race can be the difference between a win and a mid-pack finish. Just ask Justin Wilson

Both driver's should have been disqualified!

It seems that IndyCar is going to follow the bad parts of the NASCAR business plan.

**Anubis** · 12th Jun 12, 21:52

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

You think wrong.

Marshall Pruett claims that only "The pieces reduce a few pounds of drag," which is what IndyCar Tells him and is not based on any real data. And even if true a few pounds of down-force on a 1.5 mile oval can be worth 100th's of not 10th's of a second a lap and over the course of a race can be the difference between a win and a mid-pack finish. Just ask Justin Wilson

Both driver's should have been disqualified!

You can't disagree with Indycar's conclusion on the basis they have no real data, only to then make your own counter conclusion when you likewise have no real data. To do so undermines the very point of your argument.

Also, whilst I don't claim to be an aerodynamics expert, haven't you mixed up drag and downforce in your statement? In this example, I don't see how having lower drag gives an improvement in downforce. If anything I'd have thought it would be the reverse? If extra downforce was an advantage at this track, why didn't Ed Carpenter win, given his oval specialism?

**Lousada** · 12th Jun 12, 23:45

So they forbid a bunch of parts specifically for this race and then don't even check if they are removed?

And then the punishment is in no proportion to other fines given this season. Blabbering on twitter will cost you more than cheating to victory...

**anthonyvop** · 13th Jun 12, 00:39

Originally Posted by hornet

You can't disagree with Indycar's conclusion on the basis they have no real data, only to then make your own counter conclusion when you likewise have no real data. To do so undermines the very point of your argument.

Also, whilst I don't claim to be an aerodynamics expert, haven't you mixed up drag and downforce in your statement? In this example, I don't see how having lower drag gives an improvement in downforce. If anything I'd have thought it would be the reverse? If extra downforce was an advantage at this track, why didn't Ed Carpenter win, given his oval specialism?

Miss spoke about the downforce/Drag thing. Either way it is a violation of the rules.

The Idea that because he passed tech before the race it means it is OK is almost insulting with its ridiculousness.

Suppose one team had an electronic setup that would increase boost and thus power by 150 H.P. at the press of a button and it was so well hidden the guys at tech missed it.

Would it be OK with you guys? He passed Tech after all!

Facts are Facts.

Justin Wilson's car had unapproved parts in violation of the rules. The penalty for this violation can barely even be called a wrist slap. So why should I trust anyone on the IndyCar grid when there is no credible deterrent to cheating?

**anthonyvop** · 13th Jun 12, 00:41

Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

I'm glad Wilson keeps the win, I rather see him winning than Graham Rahal... He did not deserve it because he made contact with the wall, period.

So in your world a Cheater is more deserving of a win?

**garyshell** · 13th Jun 12, 03:01

Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

I'm glad Wilson keeps the win, I rather see him winning than Graham Rahal... He did not deserve it because he made contact with the wall, period.

I just can't wrap my head around this idea that someone who hit the wall and was able to recover and go on would not be deserving of a win??? Sorry, but I think that s just ridiculous. Overcoming adversity ought to be encouraged.

Gary

**Mark in Oshawa** · 13th Jun 12, 08:22

Originally Posted by hornet

You can't disagree with Indycar's conclusion on the basis they have no real data, only to then make your own counter conclusion when you likewise have no real data. To do so undermines the very point of your argument.

Also, whilst I don't claim to be an aerodynamics expert, haven't you mixed up drag and downforce in your statement? In this example, I don't see how having lower drag gives an improvement in downforce. If anything I'd have thought it would be the reverse? If extra downforce was an advantage at this track, why didn't Ed Carpenter win, given his oval specialism?

Tony doesn't need data, he only needs to say Indycar has it and is lying to you.

I think when the dust settles, this is much ado about something but nothing much. The reality is the tech inspectors screwed up. Just like an umpire can call a ball a strike out of the strike zone. So since THEY screwed up, they fine post race, but don't change the final result. Paying fans and fans on TV saw Justin win. That is the way they look at it. I am with Tony on that not always being the best way to operate, but in this case, the "cheat" was not a greivious and flagrant error, it was at best something that added a lb or two of downforce, but also would have generated the accompanying amount of drag. Who can say but a guy who has had the car in the tunnel how much of an advantage it could be, but I suspect it isn't enough to make a difference if the driver isn't on his game, and the chassis isn't right.

It isn't a mistake they should make again, but that damn umpire still misses calls...

**heliocastroneves#3** · 13th Jun 12, 11:44

Originally Posted by garyshell

I just can't wrap my head around this idea that someone who hit the wall and was able to recover and go on would not be deserving of a win??? Sorry, but I think that s just ridiculous. Overcoming adversity ought to be encouraged.

Gary

He shouldn't have made contact with the wall, it's easy as that.

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

So in your world a Cheater is more deserving of a win?

Of course not but it's the fault of IndyCar, they should have seen it. Someone who hits the wall with a few laps to go, should not win the race. That's my opinion; Graham hit the wall and Justin didn't. I'm not the guy who decides whether someone has to be disqualified or not, I just give my opinion about it. And who says that Justin had some advantage with it? He used it during the whole race weekend, right? If it really was an advantage for him, I don't think he would have qualified 17th to be honest.

I know; Rules are rules but who am I to say whether he has to be disqualified or not?