Thread: Owners Vote Out Aero Kits For 2013

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Indycar and owners are in this predicament by their own making. Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve. make it open competition perod and that would bring price down like in every other business. Here is a good read on the matter.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is

Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.

The way I see it, pretty much no one deserves those things, I love racing, I buy tickets when I can, I will attend the USGP in Austin, I will surely go to the Indy race in Houston next year, but I don't deserve anything, I'm not doing anything deserving of praise, I just buy tickets when I have the money, if I don't have the money, I don't go anywhere, if I have the money but I don't like the product, I don't go. simple as that,

Originally Posted by garyshell

Open competition leads to one thing in racing, the winner is the team with the deepest pockets. Gary

What is different now? Names, Roger and Chip ,but game is the same. I still want to see new cars and competition for my money ,how they going to manage it is not up to me. I remember years of open competition when team with deep pocket did not make Indy and small team build small Buick to race and did ok.

I think that fans must try to understand the teams. The economic climate is bad, the teams already paid way more than expected for the new car and they simply can't afford more. Would you like to see Indy Car becoming a class series, with two teams dominating with fundamentally different car? Or worse, mass exodus from the series and 13 or 14 cars? I don't think so.

I have posted before that I'm a fan of open wheel high tech race cars, and that's what got me to watch Indycars and come to be passionate about it, new cars every year,engine developement, speed records,open competition on all levels. I don't deserve anything as someone have to give me something, but as a fan, therefore consumer of the product I do deserve best that my hard earn money and support can buy. Reading everything posted here by me one could conclude that only thing I want is for Indycar to be the best that could be. Best for the fans and Indycar in my opinion is new tech and developement of the cars and competitive nature of the beast. That would generate interest of new high tech generation of yung kids who at a moment are all plugged in some type device and would bring old fans back. Spec does not work for most of us. This year new car created buzz, next year new look and kits more buzz and that is better promotion then some silly comercial talking obout great past. Perhaps you right, I do not deserve that, but would drive with my frends to few races and spend my money for it!!!

[QUOTE=jarrambide;1042096]Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.


I do apologize ,I did not want my post to come a platform to run for political office. I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.

Originally Posted by garyshell

Open competition leads to one thing in racing, the winner is the team with the deepest pockets. Harken back to the days of Can-AM, what killed it? Porsche being willing to spend boat loads of cash. What happened to IMSA? Toyota was willing to spend boat loads of cash. I can't think of a single series where costs went down because of open rules.

Gary

A nice comparison would be the DTM versus the Aussie V8s. One is awash with technology and has been terminally dull for years, the other is stone age in technological terms yet offers for my money the most exciting racing on the planet. In fact, the Aussie tourers probably provide a warning about costs and technology - from Wikipedia :-

"1991 was the low point for Group A touring car racing in Australia. Grid numbers plunged in a harsh economic climate. Just eleven cars entered the Wanneroo round of the ATCC and just fifteen started the once prestigious Sandown 500. On track the Touring Car Championship was dominated by the Gibson Motor Sport prepared Nissan Skyline GT-Rs of Jim Richards and Mark Skaife. Tony Longhursts new 2.5 litre evolution spec BMW M3 was the only car to interrupt the clean sweep. A final round DNF for Richards was not enough to take the title away, despite Skaife scoring more points over the course of the season. With only the best eight results counting Richards won the championship by five points. Gibson Motor Sport did not appear at the Sandown 500 but Nissan still won through the Bob Forbes owned car driven by Mark Gibbs and Formula Holden ace Rohan Onslow. Richards and Skaife swept all before them at the Bathurst 1000, establishing a race record that still stands. Third placing at Bathurst gave the Australian Endurance Championship to Gibbs and Onslow".

I'm not saying the series is perfect now, but compare today's racing to the above account, look at the financial climate and be careful what you wish for.

The fans do want some innovation. The owners want controlled costs. Yet, read anything on the history of Penske, and you learn about his "unfair advantage" theory. He has always pushed things, and tried to get a leg up. I suspect he would love to change that bodykit. I lay even money he has had people do some wind tunnel work on mods to make their cars faster if allowed.

I want some of this...but it is in the end up to the governing body to construct a set of rules and approve kits that anyone can buy. At least give team owners some options....and let nature take its course a little. I guess it is a fine line between escalating costs and a spec series, but we have choice in engines, allow some choice in body kits....

[QUOTE=FIAT1;1042199]

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.


I do apologize ,I did not want my post to come a platform to run for political office. I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.

de·serve
   [dih-zurv] Show IPA verb, de·served, de·serv·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.

verb (used without object)
2.
to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense, etc.: to reward him as he deserves; an idea deserving of study.

You keep using that word, what merits do you have to "deserve" more?, What qualifications do you have to "deserve" more?

If you tell me that you want more for your money, I will understand it completely, I don't think IndyCar is offering that much quality, not even close to the old day, but wanting more for your money, and thinking you "deserve" more just because you buy a ticket, I'm going to pay a lot for the F1 race in Austin and I don't think I will deserve anything at all.

You think the ticket, airplane tickets, and hotel costs are worth it, go for it, if you think it is not worth it, don't go, but this whole speech about deserving something just sounds weird.

The racing's quite good. I'm fine with the way things are.

For technical development, there's always the ALMS.

Originally Posted by FIAT1

I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.

Then show your displeasure by not buying a ticket. Many others have done just that and that is why there has been so much change in IndyCar. They are trying to lure them back with what they consider a "better product"

[QUOTE=jarrambide;1042313]

Originally Posted by FIAT1

de·serve
   [dih-zurv] Show IPA verb, de·served, de·serv·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.

verb (used without object)
2.
to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense, etc.: to reward him as he deserves; an idea deserving of study.

You keep using that word, what merits do you have to "deserve" more?, What qualifications do you have to "deserve" more?

If you tell me that you want more for your money, I will understand it completely, I don't think IndyCar is offering that much quality, not even close to the old day, but wanting more for your money, and thinking you "deserve" more just because you buy a ticket, I'm going to pay a lot for the F1 race in Austin and I don't think I will deserve anything at all.

You think the ticket, airplane tickets, and hotel costs are worth it, go for it, if you think it is not worth it, don't go, but this whole speech about deserving something just sounds weird.

..thank you google for clarifying that!!!

I think it would be great idea for some to read my posts again instead picking same lines out repeatedly, than you would see that is not obout me as much as it is for the sport that I like to be what once was. Like I have posted before ,dude in Bristol knows what his fans like and is doing something about it, eather they deserve it or not,but I'm sure he knows that money they will pay to see it, they do deserve a change. Indycar will not lure fans back by building spec series again and that is a point of the conversation in the first place.

Originally Posted by FIAT1

I think it would be great idea for some to read my posts again instead picking same lines out repeatedly, than you would see that is not obout me as much as it is for the sport that I like to be what once was. Like I have posted before ,dude in Bristol knows what his fans like and is doing something about it, eather they deserve it or not,but I'm sure he knows that money they will pay to see it, they do deserve a change. Indycar will not lure fans back by building spec series again and that is a point of the conversation in the first place.

Some?, This is not the playground at an elementary school, and I'm certainly not picking on you, if you don't like my comments, you can reply to my posts and I will surely change my ways, and I will try to use a different language, I'm old enough not to waste time fighting just to fight.

You are preaching to the choir, I don't like IndyCar's quality, I would prefer something different, as a matter of fact, I would like something similar to what you want, but this is not about wanting to give fans what they deserve or not, this is not about wanting to give fans exactly what they want, this is way more complicated, this is about trying to give fans a product they will accept while trying not to destroy the series and not bankrupt most of the teams.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass, the owners pretty much destroyed AOWR , they have only themselves to blame, but I know that even f they finally want to fix this, the series is in such a dire situation, that they have to settle, fans don't have to settle, they can watch and attend other races, many watch and attend many different types of racing, I do.

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Some?, This is not the playground at an elementary school, and I'm certainly not picking on you, if you don't like my comments, you can reply to my posts and I will surely change my ways, and I will try to use a different language, I'm old enough not to waste time fighting just to fight.

You are preaching to the choir, I don't like IndyCar's quality, I would prefer something different, as a matter of fact, I would like something similar to what you want, but this is not about wanting to give fans what they deserve or not, this is not about wanting to give fans exactly what they want, this is way more complicated, this is about trying to give fans a product they will accept while trying not to destroy the series and not bankrupt most of the teams.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass, the owners pretty much destroyed AOWR , they have only themselves to blame, but I know that even f they finally want to fix this, the series is in such a dire situation, that they have to settle, fans don't have to settle, they can watch and attend other races, many watch and attend many different types of racing, I do.

.....it's all good ,we are all passionate and sometimes frustrated with a situation but deep down we all want what is best for the sport.

A lot of weeping and gnashing of the teeth over costs in a rich man's sport but here's the bottom line on why we well have no aero-kits next year and probably for years to follow unless there are serious efforts to open up Indycar to chassis or aero competition.

At present, with the closed chassis innovation as it has been for years, actually the lives of many fans now, a Penske or Ganassi can spend the millions to tweak those few hundredths of a second out of the car that gives them dominance. Everybody else can show up with a chassis off the shelf and be in the game and maybe even win a race... but certainly not a championship. No one, including a Ganassi or Andretti, has to worry about getting caught out investing in an inferior aero package -- never-mind chassis -- from a financial or, more importantly, competitive stand point! Sara Fisher doesn't have to worry about her money and Roger Penske doesn't have to worry about losing. The vote was probably unanimous.

All comfy and cosy!

Get used to it.

We'd still be watching that old POS Dallara if it were up to the owners which is why they shouldn't have had a vote.

That old POS dallara would have sat on pole and competed for a win at INDY this year..

Just sayin

Originally Posted by SarahFan

That old POS dallara would have sat on pole and competed for a win at INDY this year..

Just sayin

A 1996 Reynard could have blown both of them out of the water.

Originally Posted by Marbles

A 1996 Reynard could have blown both of them out of the water.

Agree...

2000 CART Fontana - Gil de Ferran's Closed Course Record - YouTube

...and I was there when it happened!

Originally Posted by Starter

Not if they were running the same motor.

I agree!