Thread: New car news!!

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

Originally Posted by SarahFan

Were their more fatalities with speeds under 200 or over 200?

Honest question

Of course there were more under 200, but that is because there were many more miles driven under 200 and more miles driven in clearly unsafe equipment. I think the proper question would be:

Were their more fatalities per mile drive under 200 or over 200?

Gary

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

When the people were dying at speeds pushing 240, no one was wearing a HANS and it was with chassis designed in the 90's originally.

I think this car with modern improvements will be safer at higher speeds.

I do think this car looks better, and since this is but ONE design, that is the key. Other body kits for this chassis will give the car a different look...and different engines will also spread the field a little. Hey...it is something new....and with more power, the drivers will have to work harder. None of this is a bad thing... and THAT my friends is the real point.

There is no doubt the new car provides a good safety cell for the driver, the safer barriers provide another way to reduce damage when contact is with the walls, the Hans device has greatly reduced the number of deaths due to the head continuing while the torso stopped, but what have they done to keep the cars out of the grandstands? Those tunnels still turn into wing bottoms when the attitude changes.

I would love to see a new track record at Indy or any other oval, but when we kill spectators the game is over. Enjoy the speed increases at the road and street circuits. The records for the ovals may be beat by fractions but I don't anticipate a 10 mph increase at any oval.

Originally Posted by garyshell

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

The current car certainly has items in place to help the driver and others you mention. New to this car is the wider body work, and rear crash structurewhich are in place to prevent wheel-to-wheel contact and the flying caraccidents that can result. This is better for drivers and those at the track.

Carry over safety features that protect others at the track include teathered wheel hubs, and rear wings. The wheel teathers came about after CARTand the IRL had fan fatalities at Michigan and Charlotte within a year of each other. The wheel stays were also in place to keep awheel in place even if the nut was left off, again to prevent a wheel fromcoming off and potentially getting jettisoned into the stands like what happenedin 1987.

We can hope and pray that the changes will help prevent ANY fatalities, butthere at times things can happen which no one can predict.

EagleEye, yes I should have been more clear I was referring to the previous iterations chassis throughout the years. I am a BIG fan of the structures on the new car to prevent wheel to wheel contact. And while the tethers are designed to do this, too many times they have failed. (Not to suggest they be eliminated, mind you.) But again I was really thinking more about the specific effects ot 240+ mph speeds and what those effects have on the saftey of all of those around the track.

Gary

Ratings and attendance are at all time lows.... Clearly those who opion is wrong .......i

Originally Posted by garyshell

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

So fan support is based soley on chasing the dragon? Is that what you are saying?

Gary

Originally Posted by SarahFan

Ratings and attendance are at all time lows.... Clearly those who opion is wrong .......i

Attendance at Indy has been increasing the last 5 for so years and last year was the best since the split.

There is no doubt a new track record would be exciting, but a car, not a wheel, wing or chassis part, in the grandstand would end it all. Briscoe was 25 feet in the air and the new rear bumper would not have come into play.

Originally Posted by garyshell

So fan support is based soley on chasing the dragon? Is that what you are saying?

Gary

No .... I'm suggesting your claim that only a handful of diehard forum posters care claim is clearly false...

The current post split retuned Honda outdated da Lara era has, besides an occasional blip, produced the lowest rated and attended era the sport has ever seen....and not just talking the 500....

That is indisputable .....clearly the silent majority have spoken....

A car going into the stands is certainly a possibility - but it is still pretty unlikely. Cars have come close - but it has not happened. The accidents where the car really tears up the fence look dramatic and tragedy is certainly close - but in effect the car and fence did their jobs.....

What I am trying to say is that we cannot make rules based ONLY on the worst case scenario. Yes, it COULD happen - but reasonable measures are in place to drastically limit the possibility and I think the same will be true even with newer, faster cars....

I would point out also, that the new car is lighter - IF it gets airborne it is all the more likely to catch air and dissipate its energy fairly quickly as opposed to a much heavier stock car traveling at the same speed......

Again not saying it won't happen - but I am saying it is an inherent risk to the sport and they have done a pretty good job to ensure it is really unlikely.....

Naturally, the results of a car going into the stands would be terrible - but people still go the sprint car races where cars end up outside of the racing area quite often (relatively speaking) and people have been and are killed by flying race cars....

I am absolutely not saying I want or wish for any drivers to get injured or certainly killed, however, a big part of the appeal of car racing to the casual fan (ie the majority of fans) is the danger aspect of it. If and when there are no crashes, no drivers putting their butts on the line, car racing as a sport will be effectively finished. Everyone here is aware that car racing in general has lost a bit of popularity in the last decade or two. There are a number of factors for this, but let's not be naive and think that the lack of speed records and risk-taking on track has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by garyshell

EagleEye, yes I should have been more clear I was referring to the previous iterations chassis throughout the years. I am a BIG fan of the structures on the new car to prevent wheel to wheel contact. And while the tethers are designed to do this, too many times they have failed. (Not to suggest they be eliminated, mind you.) But again I was really thinking more about the specific effects ot 240+ mph speeds and what those effects have on the saftey of all of those around the track.

Gary

I gotcha, point taken.

I will say the biggest fear of every series leader, teamowner, supplier, track promoter and sponsor is a car going into the stands. The liability insurance each entity must carry is staggering.

When one thinks of the countries that banned racing afterthe 1955 Le Mans disaster, and some of the countries that still outlaw motor racing racing, a similar result could be devastating to all motorsports.

And that is precisely what I meant about chasing the dragon. Unlike some folks, I just don't see the constant quest for more speed as a factor in a good racing series.

Gary

Originally Posted by SarahFan

No .... I'm suggesting your claim that only a handful of diehard forum posters care claim is clearly false...

The current post split retuned Honda outdated da Lara era has, besides an occasional blip, produced the lowest rated and attended era the sport has ever seen....and not just talking the 500....

That is indisputable .....clearly the silent majority have spoken....

Yes they and the not so silent minority have all spoken, I just don't see anything to backup the claim that they have spoken about the lack of speed records.

I am not, as some have suggested, saying we need to remove all the risk from the sport. What I am saying is it has been very exciting in the past when speeds were at 150 (no I am NOT suggesting we go back to that slow pace, just using an example). Back when we had lots less down force, harder tire compounds, the need to brake on all ovals, and cars sliding all four wheels in corners. It gave an illusion of speed, if you will, that transcends the numbers on a stop watch.

Look neither one of us has any real polling data to back up our claims. I wish there was some real data. I do know there is a point when the speeds will out pace the safety of the crowds. I don't know where that number is, nor do I want to find out. That's why I feel so strongly that we should pursue a way to make things exciting for the paying customer without the continued expectation that this year the car will be faster than the last.


Gary

Speed or a random draw form starting position.... Hmmmm...I'll take the speed..

So my question still stands Gary ... If the car isn't going to be faster then why bother ?.... Why not just grandfather in the current car?

Being faster doesn't have to mean top line speed. A quicker more agile car with the right engine formula could get around the track faster. That is what I'm excited to see!

Originally Posted by garyshell

Yes they and the not so silent minority have all spoken, I just don't see anything to backup the claim that they have spoken about the lack of speed records.

I am not, as some have suggested, saying we need to remove all the risk from the sport. What I am saying is it has been very exciting in the past when speeds were at 150 (no I am NOT suggesting we go back to that slow pace, just using an example). Back when we had lots less down force, harder tire compounds, the need to brake on all ovals, and cars sliding all four wheels in corners. It gave an illusion of speed, if you will, that transcends the numbers on a stop watch.

Look neither one of us has any real polling data to back up our claims. I wish there was some real data. I do know there is a point when the speeds will out pace the safety of the crowds. I don't know where that number is, nor do I want to find out. That's why I feel so strongly that we should pursue a way to make things exciting for the paying customer without the continued expectation that this year the car will be faster than the last.


Gary

While I see your point and don't necessarily disagree ... Back when they were doing "only" 150mph, that was fast. They were pushing the limits. It was dangerous. It wasn't the illusion of speed it was speed.

New car news is that, there is no news. I think Indycar is missing great opportunity to talk and advertise new car now that hungry fans have expressed so much interest. Testing is going on and no comments how did test go or how new engine is working out including test driver first impression. I'm a fan of inovation and tech. therefore I'm puzzeled why so quiet when this is the biggest news since unification. O yeah, please remove that fake air box. My opinon.