donKey of the race

**Knock-on** · 31st Jul 12, 14:17

I have criticised Hamilton in the past and voted him Donkey of the race as well. Sometimes I was as dissapointed as others on here and only ever defend him when I think he's been harshly dealt with such as the Spa debarcle.

With Pastor, he seems to have an incident every race. This latest one was again where his driving resulted in a collission which he gained a place from.

Now come on, if a driver makes an mistake which results in a collission that pushes another driver off track and he gets a place as a consequense, then what the hell should happen? If Pastor had of given the place back like Vettel should have done in Germany, then I doubt the Stewards would have taken any action.

However, he didn't and the Stewards did the right thing.

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 31st Jul 12, 15:07

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Felipe was responsible for a bone headed move by driving into the back of someone but Charlie should have brought out the SC looking at how much debris was on the track from Massa's front wing.

Clear enough?

I did make a tongue in cheek comment about Massa destroying Hamiltons race even when he doesn't mean to but if you cannot understand humour and insist on taking an off the cuff comment seriously then you will struggle with a lot of my posts fella

He caused the contact I do not disagree. Driving for his F1 life he was trying to take places at the start, which the F2012 has been fantastic at.
Cheers

**ArrowsFA1** · 31st Jul 12, 15:54

Originally Posted by wedge

Had it been someone like Gilles Villeneuve and not Maldonado it would have been a different story.

To quote Keke Rosberg: "Gilles was the hardest ******* I ever raced against, but completely fair. If you'd beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and gave you room. Then he'd be right back at you at the next one! Sure, he took unbelievable risks - but only with himself."

**The Black Knight** · 31st Jul 12, 15:57

At this point in time I believe it now appropriate to point out that I was right about Mr. Maldonado:

Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

**wedge** · 31st Jul 12, 16:19

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

To quote Keke Rosberg: "Gilles was the hardest ******* I ever raced against, but completely fair. If you'd beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and gave you room. Then he'd be right back at you at the next one! Sure, he took unbelievable risks - but only with himself."

What was Keke smoking?

Gilles banged wheels with Arnoux and is regarded as a hero.

Gilles fought tooth and nail to the point he would never gave away a millimetre.

**ArrowsFA1** · 31st Jul 12, 16:38

When did we last hear a current driver say of Maldonado: "If you beat him to a corner, he'll accept it and give you room."

**steveaki13** · 31st Jul 12, 22:40

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I'm glad he got a penalty. I would give him a penalty if he so much as sneezes in the diretion of another competitor until he gets it into his thick scull that this isn't touring cars and if he wants to hold onto his super licence, then he'd better buck his ideas up.

I hope that F1 is a proffesional sport and the stewards shouldn't judge him on past errors.

Each individual case must be viewed as a driver making a mistake or intentionally colliding with another or whatever. The point is stewards should never get to the point where the judge a driver before his next incident.

He has made bad mistakes in the past and this was seen by the stewards as another. Which is fair enough thats what they are there for. What the must not do is see a slightly agreesive defend of position for example and give him a 30 second penalty because he has crashed 4 times before.

Each incident and penalty is a opened and closed book. If he also gets a repremand that should be viewed as a closed case until such time where he has 2 or 3 whatever it is and then action of a ban or whatever it might be should be enforced.

The stewards must never in any Sport pre judge and look for a reason to give him his next penalty.

We must have faith that the system works and if and when Maldonado needs a ban then the stewards will give him one.

**steveaki13** · 31st Jul 12, 22:55

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

It's pretty incredible the amount of people who would in the same breath critisise the Hungaroring for noone being able to pass and then blaming Maldonado for actually making a pass that wasn't 100% perfect.

I don't know what point you are trying to make here - unless you are accusing some of hypocrisy, you are merely stating different opinions held by different people.

I am assuming, for consistency, you held the exact same stance towards Lewis Hamilton in 2011?

Penalties should be allocated based on the merits of individual events alone. Maldonado is not on probation nor is he serving a suspended ban, so there is no logical reason why incidents involving him should be treated differently to any other driver.

Wow I just posted above. But I didn't need to. I agree 100% with this.

Originally Posted by zako85

So there should be a drive through penalty for all cars making contact on the track for whatever reason? The rule should be a rule and it should be applied equally to all, and the new rules should not be made on the spot IMO. If this is punishable, I would really like to see for the rest of this season all drivers who lose their car and hit others penalized also.

Maldonado did leave room for Di Resta's car. That is, before he had to steer correct the slide of his car.

I agree. I seem to remember Kobayashi bumping wheel to wheel with Button in Barcelona and not getting a penalty. Why was that? It looked like a great move to me.

He nudged Button wide. Whats the difference???

Originally Posted by Malbec

Should we treat each individual case on its own merits or just look at who got involved and penalise them purely on that?

I rewatched the 'collision', it was a pretty good move from Pastor until he lost the back end a wee bit and hit the FI. Sure, he gained the place but both cars managed to carry on undamaged. If that should have been penalised then lets be thorough and fair and simply penalise every overtake that results in contact. Had Lewis made a similar move (and lets face it, he has done many times in the past) would you be so vocal?

This

**steveaki13** · 31st Jul 12, 23:01

I know its not such a sudden hit, but Kamui still pushes Button aside with contact and gains a position. Why no Penalty?

**wedge** · 31st Jul 12, 23:20

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

When did we last hear a current driver say of Maldonado: "If you beat him to a corner, he'll accept it and give you room."

That says it all.

Pastor Maldonado guilty of being Pastor Maldonado.

**keysersoze** · 31st Jul 12, 23:26

If Pastor had a clean record going into Hungary that move is not penalized, perhaps not even reviewed. IMO.

I liked the move. I applauded the move. Yet given the context of the contact, I agree with the penalty, even though it seemed as if PM was merely countersteering, as others have observed, and not steering directly into Paul.

The mantra from race control has been revealed: "You will all be treated fairly, but not necessarily equally." I don't have a problem with that.

**rjbetty** · 1st Aug 12, 01:39

Who needs Sato when you have MALDONADO?!

I was going to say at least Pastor hasn't done something as totally idiotic as crashing into his team-mate at turn 2 of the Malaysian GP, as Sato did to Fisichella 10 years ago, denying him and the Jordan team of a likely and much-needed points finish. But then I remembered he did exactly that to Senna and Paul di Resta...

**ArrowsFA1** · 1st Aug 12, 08:25

Originally Posted by wedge

That says it all.

Pastor Maldonado guilty of being Pastor Maldonado.

**wedge** · 1st Aug 12, 16:17

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Pastor Maldonado has a reputation where even in a racing incident some people like to point fingers at him.

**ArrowsFA1** · 1st Aug 12, 19:31

Originally Posted by wedge

Pastor Maldonado has a reputation where even in a racing incident some people like to point fingers at him.

Yes he does have a reputation for being involved in incidents. He's not the first, nor the last, driver to earn such a reputation.

As I've already said I'm not conviced this particular incident deserved a penalty, but it was similar enough to previous incidents to suggest he's not learning or progressing as a driver.

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor, but everything to do with Pastor not learning from his mistakes.

**MAX_THRUST** · 1st Aug 12, 23:24

Is F1 still using different stewards at each race? There is your answer. Lack of consistancy in the giving out of penalties. Pastor is guilty of being Pastor as Lewis was guilty of being Lewis a while back. The only way to stop getting penalties is to calm down and drive perfectly. Then eyes will turn to someone else, and they will ease up on you as you have clealy learnt your lesson as you have stopped knocking into everyone.

**wedge** · 2nd Aug 12, 00:13

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor, but everything to do with Pastor not learning from his mistakes.

What mistake in Hungary? Is it a gross error to race wheel to wheel and take too much kerb (which caused the oversteer)?

And what is so wrong with a tank-slapper when after correction the natural tendency of the car is to drift?

F1 Unkarin GP 2012: Maldonado ja Di Resta kolaroivat - Video Dailymotion

Is it not similar to Bourdais barging into Massa in Fuji 2008?

Vidéo GP Japon 2008 Bourdais Massa accrochage de F1-VIDEO (Sport - F1-VIDEO) - wat.tv

Bourdais was penalised by the stewards yet the consensus was that Bourdais was innocent.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/1...tml#post545674

**Malbec** · 2nd Aug 12, 09:08

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor

From what I understand it has a lot to do with Pastor being Pastor.

Apparently he's a cocky little sh*t in real life who invites being slapped down into place purely based on his personality. Even at Spa last year where he collided with Lewis the stewards asked him to leave and re-enter in a manner that was respectful to everyone else in the room.

That he keeps getting involved in silly little incidents like this even where he is not at fault means that the stewards get plenty of opportunity to slap him down. That is not how it should be but unfortunately the stewards are only human too.

I don't know what mentoring Wurz is doing over at Williams but it clearly isn't enough!

**ArrowsFA1** · 2nd Aug 12, 10:19

Originally Posted by Malbec

I don't know what mentoring Wurz is doing over at Williams but it clearly isn't enough!

Well, I hope whatever work he's doing will have its effect in time because the mistakes/errors/misjudgements Pastor has made are proving to be costly for the team. Meanwhile, on the other side of the garage Senna is steadily gathering points and (IMHO) improving.

**Dave B** · 2nd Aug 12, 11:54

Originally Posted by wedge

Had it been someone like Gilles Villeneuve and not Maldonado it would have been a different story.

When GV did it people called it drifting and were wetting their pants in excitement. Anybody else does the same and it's called losing control of your car.